Do I need to document family repayments?

theartfullodger

davidmcn wrote: »

No it can't. The fraud was committed at the point the OP declared the funds to be a gift, knowing it was actually a loan. They might be able to try to cover it up, or mitigate the effects, but from a criminal law point of view they've already committed the offence.

Happy is pointing out that the mortgage company can repossess.

In what way would repossession & the OP being booted out onto the street with no prospect of ever getting another mortgage not be undoing it, please?

Penelope_Penguin

theartfullodger wrote: »

Happy is pointing out that the mortgage company can repossess.

In what way would repossession & the OP being booted out onto the street with no prospect of ever getting another mortgage not be undoing it, please?

I think David is saying that the fraud, now committed, cannot be undone. Mortgage company may take their own action if they find out. Im happy to be corrected if these are not the case

bouicca21

The logical thing would be ot forget about repayments and for your father to make a will in which he specifies that your brother gets an amount equivalent to the gift before dividing the proceeds of the estate between you. That makes it fair - which is likely to be what you, your brother and he are concerned about.

davidmcn

theartfullodger wrote: »

In what way would repossession & the OP being booted out onto the street with no prospect of ever getting another mortgage not be undoing it, please?

What the lender does about it makes no difference to whether or not fraud has occurred from a criminal point of view, which I thought was the original point you were making.

In any event, how happy are courts to entertain requests for repossession in such circumstances (assuming there are no arrears)?

pleasedelete

If your father is using it as pocket mont or rather for day to day expenses it sounds alike he actually needs the money. He may be asset rich but cash poor.

Maybe do the decent thing and remortgage now and pay him back in full?

[Deleted User]

The OP's father did something that enabled the OP to buy a house. The OP has been paying the money back. I realise that this means the original mortgage application contained a fraudulent entry.., but I very much doubt after this period of time the mortgage company would be daft enough to recall the mortgage considering the OP has been making the due mortgage payments - and all the problems that would occur with that. As the house was fairly high cost, I would assume that an increase in price would mean the LTV is reasonably high too.

I've always assumed that the intent of fraud allegations was more to do with punishing a perpetrator for running off with money (i.e. theft) than a situation like this.

xylophone

I've always assumed that the intent of fraud allegations was more to do with punishing a perpetrator for running off with money (i.e. theft) than a situation like this.

The mortgagee required a declaration that the money was a gift and the mortgagor made such a declaration in the full knowledge that it was false with the intention of obtaining a pecuniary advantage ( the mortgage on the terms and conditions applying if the deposit were unencumbered ) - that looks perilously like fraud?

marksoton

Let's have it straight, fraud was committed.

Will the lender find out? Doubtful.

OP, i would take professional advice.

Jhoney_2

Originally Posted by HappyMJ
Yes it can.

Consequences of actions

davidmcn wrote: »

No it can't. The fraud was committed at the point the OP declared the funds to be a gift, knowing it was actually a loan. They might be able to try to cover it up, or mitigate the effects, but from a criminal law point of view they've already committed the offence.

Actions of OP/Father

Both correct

TickyRa

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, notably deannatrois for your understanding.

I guess that answers my question as it would be stupid to have any written documentation as this could potentially implicate ourselves despite this being a very flexible and relaxed additional 'loan'.

Perhaps I should have elaborated in my original post.... my fathers aim was to help me not only become a property owner but reduce the interest I would owe by taking on a bigger mortgage. He requested I repay him as and when I could, and in the knowledge that given the current rate I am able to reimburse, would possibly only ever repay a proportion in his lifetime. Given it being a very flexible and informal situation there hasn't been a risk of me missing a mortgage repayment due to any additional 'outgoings.' (However it's been my decision to pay him back in regular instalments.) Yes, having declared it as a gift to the mortgage lender when in fact its a flexible loan is perhaps a bit dubious but it got me on the mortgage and on the ladder.

Re. inheritance tax, It would seem to make sense for this to be a gift outright and for him to treat my brother equally in the fullness of time. Though he's quite comfortably off and doesn't rely on my payments to live on (they come in handy i'm sure) I don't feel I can ask this as I don't feel any entitlement.