State Pension data for Self-Assessment

xylophone

I think that mgdavid means this bit:

..."the statutory basis of assessment for this type of income is the 'accruals basis'. This means that the amount of pension income chargeable to income tax is the amount accruing in the year, irrespective of when it was actually paid.
In most cases, and notably where a lump-sum payment of arrears is not involved, pensioners will normally be content to pay their tax based on the amount of pension income received. HMRC are equally content to process returns and to compute liability on this basis without insistence on applying the strict statutory basis."

Which being interpreted means "Let the dear old souls report the income using the method that seems best to them...."?:D

polymaff

xylophone wrote: »

. HMRC are equally content to process returns and to compute liability on this basis without insistence on applying the strict statutory basis."

Which being interpreted means "Let the dear old souls report the income using the method that seems best to them...."?:D

Thank you for your comments. I don't doubt that you are right about mgdavid's intent - but my point stands.

I've a particular reason for wanting to get this right first time. Reading HMRC's own manuals there are plenty of contradictions, and now talking to HMRC I can see that those who man the lines have no real idea - not exactly a staggering discovery.

I'm aware of the general belief that the accruals method should be applied - although

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=selfAssessmentFiling1516&affinitygroup=&helpid=statePensionHelp

flatly contradicts this.

So there's ambiguity about the computational method. Whichever, though, one needs to know the cash/accruals span - and this is also ambiguous. The span in a BR735 does not align with HMRC's tax year. For the critical case, I'll probably be forced to adopt worse-case data and accept a loss of efficiency. Annoying, but there it is.

The point is, if HMRC has the data - and they must have it in order to validate the submission - why can't they reveal it by correctly pre-populating the self-assessment field concerned?

If they are so coy/incompetent - how on earth will they be able to competently fill out the forthcoming "Making Tax Digital" project assessments where

"In future, people will only need check their tax information online to know how much they owe."

So I owe HMRC 20% of £118, and Mrs. Polymaff owes 20% of £117.

I think not.

Paul_Herring

polymaff wrote: »

The point is, if HMRC has the data - and they must have it in order to validate the submission

Ah. I think I see the flaw in the reasoning here...

polymaff

polymaff wrote: »

The point is, if HMRC has the data - and they must have it in order to validate the submission

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Ah. I think I see the flaw in the reasoning here...

You'll have to elaborate, Red.

mgdavid

polymaff wrote: »

In deferrment one is not a State Pensioner. .....

beg to differ, but one definitely is.
One is only deferring the payment, not the entitlement.

polymaff

polymaff wrote: »

In deferrment one is not a State Pensioner. When one (re)commences claiming, one suffers this taxation problem.

mgdavid wrote: »

beg to differ, but one definitely is.
One is only deferring the payment, not the entitlement.

One is entitled to a State Pension well before reaching SPA; one becomes eligible for a State Pension on reaching SPA, but one is only a State Pensioner when that pension is in payment.

CED: pensioner n. a person who is receiving a pension.

greenglide

The entitlement to State Pension only exists when a person is equal to or over State Pension Age. There is no entitlement before that date.

It could be considered to be a "future entitlement"?

polymaff

greenglide wrote: »

The entitlement to State Pension only exists when a person is equal to or over State Pension Age.

Someone else who needs a dictionary:

entitle vb. (tr.) to give a person the right to have something.

greenglide wrote: »

There is no [STRIKE] entitlement [/STRIKE] eligibility before that date.

eligibility n. From Late Latin eligibilis able to choose.

You get the right by dint of contributions etc. You are able to choose whether or not to become a State Pensioner once SPA is attained.

Don't worry too much, your (plural) limited grasp of the meaning of words is not untypical.

Can we get back on thread?

xylophone

Don't worry too much, your (plural) limited grasp of the meaning of words is not untypical.

If we are to nitpick, what about the spelling of words........:)

In deferrment

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/deferment

Back to the :A ? Post 13/14

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70744871#Comment_70744871