State Pension data for Self-Assessment

polymaff

HMRC tell us that you can get details needed to fill in a self-assessment return by asking The Pension Service "for a BR735 'Statement of Pension' form for the period 6 April 2015 to 5 April 2016."

I've done this, and received a one-sheet reply:

About your State Pension
____________________

Dear Mr Polymaff

Please find below details of your State Pension

State Pension from 09/12/2015; to 12/04/2016; No. of weeks: 18; No. of Days: 0; Weekly Amount £117; Total Paid: £2106

The form isn't called 'Statement of Pension', it isn't identified as a BR735 - and it doesn't cover " the period 6 April 2015 to 5 April 2016.". That's partly OK because my pension started mid-tax year - but it includes a date in FY16/17 in which I received a payment.

So, was it a BR735? Is it the correct figure? (HMRC have, over the past three weeks, suggested five different figures I should use - of which this figure is one). Is there a more appropriate way in which one can get a definitive statement?

This should be SO straightforward.

greenglide

If you use the online self assessment the amount of state pension is prefilled.

If not just take the weekly amount and multiple, y by the number of whole weeks.

xylophone

http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/articles/2009/12/16/19749/eight-days-week

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/454496/sa150-notes_2015.pdf

"Box 7 State Pension
Use the letter ‘About the general increase in
benefits’ that the Pension Service sent you to find
your weekly State Pension amount.
Add up the amount you were entitled to receive
from 6 April 2014 to 5 April 2015 and put the
total in box 7. Don’t include any amount you
received for Attendance Allowance.

If your State Pension changed during the year or
you only received it for part of the year, multiply
each amount by the number of weeks that you
were entitled to receive it. Add up your
amounts carefully.
If you do not have the letter from the Pension
Service, phone them on 0345 606 0265
(textphone 0800 731 7339) and ask them for
the information.
If you received a lump sum because you deferred
your State Pension, put the amount in box 8.
Don’t include State Pension Credit, the Christmas
bonus, Winter Fuel Payment or any addition for
a dependant child. "

polymaff

greenglide wrote: »

If you use the online self assessment the amount of state pension is prefilled.

If not just take the weekly amount and multiple, y by the number of whole weeks.

Yeah - pre-filled with the wrong data.

And get the wrong result because I don't have a definitive number of whole weeks.

Please see my reply to xylophone for more info

polymaff

xylophone wrote: »

.... multiply each amount by the number of weeks that you were entitled to receive it.

Both your and Greenglide's reply just shift the uncertainty from the Total Paid to the number of weeks - which is what?

Mrs Polymaff's "BR735":

State Pension from 11/12/2015; to 14/04/2016; No. of weeks: 18; No. of Days: 0; Weekly Amount £118; Total Paid: £2124

includes the date range 11/12/2015 to 14/04/16 - so including 9 days of FY 16/17 - and only 16 whole weeks in FY 15/16.

xylophone

State pension is a weekly benefit.

You are paid four weeks in arrears?

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/what-youll-get

polymaff

xylophone wrote: »

State pension is a weekly benefit.

You are paid four weeks in arrears?

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/what-youll-get

Both Mrs. Polymaff and I are paid four-weekly in arrears. Does that have any bearing on our quest to get what I suppose is the State Pension equivalent of a P60, which is hinted at in HMRC's help on this topic:

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=selfAssessmentFiling1516&affinitygroup=&helpid=statePensionHelp

xylophone

I have never heard of the DWP issuing a "P60 type statement" as a matter of routine to state pensioners.

The notes to R40 for 2016 and earlier years advise that you may ask DWP to issue a form BR735 - whether what you have is this document is impossible to say if the specific reference does not appear on the form.

However, the statutory basis is the accruals basis and your and your wife's state pension is a weekly benefit.

http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/articles/2007/03/22/4822/enhanced-pension

..."the statutory basis of assessment for this type of income is the 'accruals basis'. This means that the amount of pension income chargeable to income tax is the amount accruing in the year, irrespective of when it was actually paid.
In most cases, and notably where a lump-sum payment of arrears is not involved, pensioners will normally be content to pay their tax based on the amount of pension income received. HMRC are equally content to process returns and to compute liability on this basis without insistence on applying the strict statutory basis."

You know when you became eligible for the pension and the date of your first payment which was made four weeks in arrears.

See https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/what-youll-get

You could simply add up the number of full weeks in the tax year 2015-16 and use that number to multiply the amount of pension so as to reach a figure.

As this is causing so much angst, you could always add a note to your tax form explaining your computation and leave it to HMRC to make any necessary alteration?

polymaff

xylophone wrote: »

However, the statutory basis is the accruals basis

I'm aware of this - but, of course, the calculation then depends upon you being sure of the period of accrual - and there are at least three opinions within DWP/HMRC.

xylophone wrote: »

You know when you became eligible for the pension and the date of your first payment which was made four weeks in arrears.

But in my case, it wasn't. The first payment was a three-week payment. As in all other aspects of this SNAFU set-up they make up the rules as they go along.

xylophone wrote: »

You could simply add up the number of full weeks in the tax year 2015-16 and use that number to multiply the amount of pension so as to reach a figure.

I could - but that produces a result different from the five different figures HMRC/DWP have supplied.

xylophone wrote: »

As this is causing so much angst, you could always add a note to your tax form explaining your computation and leave it to HMRC to make any necessary alteration?

On the scale of personal angst at present, this issue is negligible. I guess that is the frustration at the incompetence of HMRC/DWP throwing an unneccesary issue across my path. These organisations, as Stanley Baldwin put it, have "power without responsibility — the prerogative of the harlot through the ages"

xylophone

Do you know the old song "There's a hole in my bucket........."?

But in my case, it wasn't. The first payment was a three-week payment

Fair enough - you had three whole weeks, just count on the number of whole weeks in the tax year after that , add the totals and multiply......etc

On the scale of personal angst at present, this issue is negligible.

Then adopt the method that seems most logical, "show your working' to DWP and chillax........?:D

polymaff

xylophone wrote: »

Fair enough - you had three whole weeks, just count on the number of whole weeks in the tax year after that , add the totals and multiply......etc

See previous comments re: definition of whole weeks in the tax year..

xylophone wrote: »

Then adopt the method that seems most logical

Well, that's bound to be the wrong answer.

Once past this first year it should simplify - I hope. Can anyone who has had whole year's of State Pension confirm that the "year" that HMRC accepts is defined in terms of the number of weeks when your pension was a constant amount - or was it n weeks at £xxx plus m weeks at £yyy?