Black limestone hearth - cracked joints & lifted flags.

JustAnotherSaver

Furts - from reading the angle you're coming in from, i know you're going to take this as though i'm putting your advice down. I also know you'll ignore me when i say that i'm not but i'll go ahead & say it anyway....

I'm not putting your advice down when i say this......

but i read your post & i actually spoke with numerous people who've had work done in the past & lately. Some just 'small jobs'. Others quite big jobs.

I asked them did you get in this guy, that guy, the other guy, did you check this, did you check that, so on & so forth.

Throughout the answer was no.

The only one that was a yes was the references. Where possible these were obtained.

We've done this where possible. In this instance the damp proofers did not come recommended because we knew nobody who'd had damp work carried out. The fire installer DID come recommended. I could go on & on with the tradesmen but i've just realised that we're getting further & further away from the original question, so i suppose i'll answer that if/when that question gets answered.

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I want a single thanks

I replied to you today .... 9:29am according to the time stamp on the post. Check the very first word in that reply to you. I know it's not the first time i've used the word too.

Should i use capitals in future? I dunno. When did "thanks" stop becoming "thanks"?

I said earlier you were losing me but on that one you've totally lost me.


ANYWAY......

I measured up the joints on our hearth & had a look at what my mother has down at hers (black limestone no less, no problems in the past 4-5 years even).
Her joints are double the thickness of ours. I remember getting my wife to ask the guy when doing ours about having it like my mothers. He said he doesn't do thick joints because in his experience they crack more.

Possibly contributing factor or no?

Our fire...


Joint between the right flag & the rear flag...


Joint between the front 2 flags...




Then i went to my mothers & while there measured up her hearth....

Joint between the front 2 flags on my mothers hearth...

JustAnotherSaver

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I'm just wondering what they should be doing to put this right?

I'm guessing lift flag off, knock off all the cement on the underside & the joints to the left & rear flag.

As for the bed ... i've no idea.

And then somehow re-fit while aiming to get it level.

Is it literally as simple as that?

Since the original question seems to have been lost amongst all this, i'll quote & repost it here.

rustyboy21

It is the worst way to lay a hearth IMO.

I would have pre slabbed the entire hearth, including the chamber, before even getting to site. That means setting up the hearth upside down, boxing out the sides to the required height and then filling with mrtar. Leave it to dry fully and then take it to site and install.

You would not have this problem, it would cost more doing this, but at least the stone wouldnt move in a month of sundays.
IMO, it has been done on the cheap and bound to have issues, it can take months to set properly, if ever, depending on mix.

Furts

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I measured up the joints on our hearth & had a look at what my mother has down at hers (black limestone no less, no problems in the past 4-5 years even).
Her joints are double the thickness of ours. I remember getting my wife to ask the guy when doing ours about having it like my mothers. He said he doesn't do thick joints because in his experience they crack more.

Possibly contributing factor or no?

This sums up your approach in a nutshell, and also explains why people are both bemused and frustrated with your approach.

The common sense and professional approach is to seek the installation, or fitting, instructions. It could also be to contact a Trade Body, or get advice from a stone mason. I have suggested this in a previous post.

Instead, your approach is "Iwannit like my mums". So is your mum's correct? Does she have the same floor detail? Does she have a pit of damp rubble(if that is what it is) under her hearth? And so it goes on.

But equally you are Project Manager here. Hence you sought tenders. These tenders were based on your specification. Hence it is absurd to say the installer has not given you what you want, when you have instructed him in what to do. You knew you were unhappy with the installation - you admit that, but you still paid for the work.

To state the bleedin obvious now can you see where the problem lies?

Silver-Surfer_2

It like the house that Jack built.

JustAnotherSaver

Furts wrote: »

Instead, your approach is "Iwannit like my mums". So is your mum's correct?

6 replies & i wont say you haven't answered the original question, i'll say you're actually ignoring it.

I'm more than happy for people to not come here with some attitude & help out, but this seems beyond you for some reason, so probably best for both of us you simply don't bother from here on.

I don't mind being told things, but you seem to be on some other agenda, so just don't bother. Leave it for someone else who can manage to be pleasant.

Oh & the quote i just quoted ... Stood out as where YOU think YOU know best yet is totally incorrect. But since YOU said it i guess it's true right?

Oh & since you seem to dislike a number of my posts then a solution for you...

* Click my username
* Under "User Lists" (click that)
* Click "Add to Ignore List".

There. You wont be offended by any of my posts ever again

Poor do when someone can't just come online to ask some questions. Wish i was a fountain of knowledge such as yourself.

rustyboy21 wrote: »

It is the worst way to lay a hearth IMO.

I would have pre slabbed the entire hearth, including the chamber, before even getting to site. That means setting up the hearth upside down, boxing out the sides to the required height and then filling with mrtar. Leave it to dry fully and then take it to site and install.

You would not have this problem, it would cost more doing this, but at least the stone wouldnt move in a month of sundays.
IMO, it has been done on the cheap and bound to have issues, it can take months to set properly, if ever, depending on mix.

Are you saying that this is 100% down to how it's been bedded in & not that it's been stood on in a 'bad spot'?

Let's say for a minute that it does get bedded in 'properly' ... should you be able to stand on it on any point if it's been bedded in properly? Even on say the corner/lip?



cyclonebri - remember saying to me that only I can make the decision which route to take? Some times people make mistakes, especially when the route they think is the right one turns out not to be. We're all human.

teneighty

My advice would be stopping taking advice from numpties on the internet.

You are massively over thinking this. The slab has moved, it could be due to any number of reasons. Just phone the guy who laid the hearth and ask him to come back and fix it.

If it turns out that the structural hearth underneath has moved then cross that bridge when you get to it.

It looks to me that someone has just stood on the edge of the slab when the bed was still soft.

cyclonebri1

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I replied to you today .... 9:29am according to the time stamp on the post. Check the very first word in that reply to you. I know it's not the first time i've used the word too.

Should i use capitals in future? I dunno. When did "thanks" stop becoming "thanks"?

I said earlier you were losing me but on that one you've totally lost me.

Don't chuck all those toys out of the pram until you've read this

You didn't actually post anything to me at the time you claim, go check.

You've also altered the quotation on post#10 to what you imagine I wanted.

Now if you did say thanks in this mysterious missing post then you really didn't understand, I was suggesting you find the thanks button and hit it for everyone who has genuinely tried to help you, some people simply won't reply again if they sense their advice isn't useful to you. You've been on here 3 years now and you've not found the thanks button?

However it doesn't bother me so inspite of saying I'm out of here I'll try one last time.

The bit you didn't get was this, "why would he have cut the floorboards?". Well here's why

You have floor boards therefore you have joists therefore a void beneath. Now something was making a half-hearted attempt to support the flags, ie he has provided some support.

Your levels are such that the support cannot be on top of the joists so that leaves me guessing at several possibilities.


He could have;

As I suggested added noggings to the side of the joists and put some unsuitable material in, say chipboard, as support for the mortar.

He could have cut the joists to enable him to drop that board lower into the floor to maintain the finished level closer to what you wanted, that's bad enough,:eek: but

He could have simply shoveled in rubble and mortared on top:eek::eek: or

He could even have put mesh on the joists and simply have mortared over:eek::eek::eek:

What I was really saying was that you've had a cowboy on the job, he could have bodged it in many ways, we don't know

cyclonebri1

teneighty wrote: »

It looks to me that someone has just stood on the edge of the slab when the bed was still soft.

Not likely given this from the 1st post;


"The bed underneath the left flag is quite solid, but underneath the lifted flag it's set, but doesn't feel rock solid like under the left side. Plus it's cracked more. Whether this has any negative effects I've no idea, i just thought i'd point it out."

it's the substrate that's given in some way and that why we are simply guessing

JustAnotherSaver

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

You didn't actually post anything to me at the time you claim, go check.

Maybe you should check? There is no "mystery post". It's not hidden. I even gave you the time.

But anyway...



To be honest, i didn't realise people gave advice to rack up a thanks count.
I know i'm not the most helpful of people on this forum because i don't have the knowledge to do that. If i can help then i do.
Regardless, if i was THE most helpful person on the forum, i personally wouldn't care if someone hit a like button or not just so some numbers increased under my name. If they simply said thanks in their response post then that would do for me. I thought, wrongly i guess, others would be the same?

When people are giving me advice, i don't look at the numbers under their name. Hmm, only 1000 likes, maybe this guy isn't helpful enough.

I check to see if they come in being pleasant & looking like they want to help.
Or if they seem to want to come in to ridicule first because your knowledge is inferior to theirs.

Let's face it, i'm sure we can agree that there's both sets of people on this forum.

But anyway, you asked to be shown where it was & there you go.

Next time i'll click the thanks button. However, if i think someone is coming in with needless attitude, then i wont click thanks. There's simply no need for it.

Yes i may not know as much as you & i may be going the long way about things, but look at any of my posts & at no point do i start with the attitude like some of these people. I may react with it but i don't start with it. If people want to come being pleasant then great. If people want to start with attitude then that must be how they want to be spoken to.

This is a money saving website & manners are free.

You've also altered the quotation on post#10 to what you imagine I wanted.

As for the edit, it's basically what you were saying. You wanted some thanks. I'm saying i gave you some. I didn't know you wanted a clicky thanks instead of a thanks-thanks.

The bit you didn't get was this, "why would he have cut the floorboards?". Well here's why

You have floor boards therefore you have joists therefore a void beneath. Now something was making a half-hearted attempt to support the flags, ie he has provided some support.

Yes i understand all that but :wall::wall::wall:

The 4th photo in this thread. That is what he put the flags on. Where you see the flooboards stop, that isn't a big hole there. It's all brickwork that is built up from the base. It's solid flooring which i guess originally was tiled.
If the flag is 600mm wide then about 580mm at least i would say is bedded on to this. Only 20mm at the most i would guess, probably not even that, would be touching floorboards. Probably more like 10mm or less. The mortar is touching the edges of the floorboards, yes, but bedded ONTO the floorboards? I never said it was.


From reading your posts i think you think that gap there is a hole which you could jump down. It isn't. As such he has no access to the joists like i said earlier, unless he lifts the floorboards which he didn't as i said earlier.

You can see wood & a hi-viz jacket even rested on this area so that shows enough that it's not just a hole.

So again, he was physically unable to access the joists. The joists were not touched.

I'd show you a better photo of that base if i could find one. I had problems with my photos over Xmas & lost a few & i think that's one of them so the one i provided here was the best one i had.