PCN Notification timeframe Parking eye.

Lmv250_2

pappa_golf wrote: »

on the letter from PE , does there seem to be a gap , as in a couple of lines missing in the middle , the wording of those lines would be in regard to POFa 2012 , and how they are working to it?


see here


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you are notified under paragraph 9 ,,,, bla bla ,,, bla

My ntk It is not the same as the wording on the attachment. It has omitted the entire portion relating ro the sections of the POFA directive. Para 9 etc. It am unsure how to up load to show on this forum

pappa_golf

ok your answer is understood , they are not relying on the protection of freedom act , and as such they CANNOT go for the car owner.


it is VERY important that you do not name yourself as the driver , VERY important


others will advise further , but PE have made a !!!! up along the line , and its now just a begging letter.

Lmv250_2

pappa_golf wrote: »

ok your answer is understood , they are not relying on the protection of freedom act , and as such they CANNOT go for the car owner.


it is VERY important that you do not name yourself as the driver , VERY important


others will advise further , but PE have made a !!!! up along the line , and its now just a begging letter.

Thanks for that advice.

Bearing in mind the !!!!! By PE, does this affect the action am I required to do ?

Would your advice be to issue the BPA letter and point out their error in not issuing in accordance with POFA regs ?

I have noted all comments re wording regarding admitting to being the driver and the suggested wording to use. Ty

pappa_golf

just send the std BLUE template , keep your non POPLa for later , use your pownder carefully.




send this (in blue) do not add or alter it.




Here is a template appeal that doesn't give away the driver & gets a rejection letter with a POPLA code. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper of course.

If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car, see separate section below) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers. Do not appeal if the parking event was in Scotland/NI, see separate section below.


Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,





{obviously add the registered keeper's name, obviously add your postal address even if emailing (!) as long as you are sure the PPC is an AOS member}

ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT!

NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE FOR FIRMS LIKE UKPC AND EURO CAR PARKS & PARKINGEYE, BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT THEN GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP A SCREEN PRINT. USE THE EMAIL APPEAL OPTION IF FIRMS OFFER IT - E.G. HORIZON, SMART, OR 'MET' AT MCDONALDS OFFER EMAIL APPEALS.

Lmv250_2

pappa_golf wrote: »

just send the std BLUE template , keep your non POPLa for later , use your pownder carefully.




send this (in blue) do not add or alter it.

B
[/SIZE][/B]If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car, see separate section below) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers. Do not appeal if the parking event was in Scotland/NI, see separate section below.


Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,





{obviously add the registered keeper's name, obviously add your postal address even if emailing (!) as long as you are sure the PPC is an AOS member}

ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT!

NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE FOR FIRMS LIKE UKPC AND EURO CAR PARKS & PARKINGEYE, BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT THEN GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP A SCREEN PRINT. USE THE EMAIL APPEAL OPTION IF FIRMS OFFER IT - E.G. HORIZON, SMART, OR 'MET' AT MCDONALDS OFFER EMAIL APPEALS.

That's great. Thanks for all your help.

Coupon-mad

PE haven't mucked up. Quite rightly, they issue their 'Plan B' PCN version with a gap, missing out the POFA wording, when they know they are sending a PCN too late for keeper liability.

The trick is for the appellant to use that to their advantage by appealing only as keeper (of course). And at POPLA stage, for POPLA to actually understand the applicable law...

Lmv250_2

Hello all

I have received a reply from PE rejecting my appeal on the grounds that I overstayed the time paid for.

They have stated that as a gesture of goodwill that the 14 day discount has been extended, I of course will be declining this. There is no other threats of legal recovery. They have supplied a Popla code and provided the appeal process instructions.

Can you please clarify my next course of action, given this letter's content and the original "plan b" from PE?

Thank you

bod1467

So they provided a POPLA code in their rejection? If yes then your next step is clear ... prepare a POPLA appeal, post the draft here for comment then send to POPLA at the appropriate time.

You don't need to rush this.

Lmv250_2

bod1467 wrote: »

So they provided a POPLA code in their rejection? If yes then your next step is clear ... prepare a POPLA appeal, post the draft here for comment then send to POPLA at the appropriate time.

You don't need to rush this.

Thank you for that...I'll prepare and post for approval. It just seems odd that PE would contest where they are aware that they have failed to follow POFA regs.

Is there a chance that my claim could fail at popla? I will include this plus signage, grace periods etc.

Coupon-mad

You should NOT lose this at POPLA, if you appeal as the registered keeper pointing out no keeper liability because PE have used a non-POFA version of a NTK and the driver's identity has never been established. POPLA is not a 'claim' it is an appeal. We want to help, so draft a decent POPLA appeal with 'no keeper liability' as number one on the agenda.

Find examples by searching 'POPLA no keeper liability' and reading ones written re other operators (your case is quite rare for PE so count yourself very lucky to have this silver bullet). Can't recall the last one we had like this involving PE, but you will find POPLA appeals written re other operators.

PE contested it because they can, because lily-livered people give up and pay up at this stage. They would have been hoping you had appealed as driver (foiled them!) and they are now calling your bluff, hoping you appeal badly to POPLA or forget it/miss the deadline of 28 days.