Picking the runt of the litter..?

ernie-money

Person_one wrote: »

If you're worried about health issues, what breed is the pup and what health tests have both parents had?

I wasn't really worried about health issues as such, only in respect of this particular pup being so small. We have previously had pedigree dogs with lots of health issues, so this time decided to go for a cross breed (mum is a Patterdale and dad a Staff), hoping that we would get a healthier dog that way...
I don't know of any particular health tests, but was more going by the way the owners seemed to care about and look after them and the way the mum and dad look. The owners have about 9 dogs all living with them in the house and they also sometimes look after two of the pups they have previously had from the same parents, so I thought that was a good sign.
I realise any dog can come with health problems - even our hardy little Jack Russell has got hay fever would you believe it, and if that happens, we will deal with it, I just didn't want to make an obvious mistake...

NewShadow

Can't hurt.

Also consider the advice here when thinking about introducing baby to Jack:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-introduce-your-puppy-to-other-family-pets.html

Person_one

ernie-money wrote: »

I wasn't really worried about health issues as such, only in respect of this particular pup being so small. We have previously had pedigree dogs with lots of health issues, so this time decided to go for a cross breed (mum is a Patterdale and dad a Staff), hoping that we would get a healthier dog that way...
I don't know of any particular health tests, but was more going by the way the owners seemed to care about and look after them and the way the mum and dad look. The owners have about 9 dogs all living with them in the house and they also sometimes look after two of the pups they have previously had from the same parents, so I thought that was a good sign.
I realise any dog can come with health problems - even our hardy little Jack Russell has got hay fever would you believe it, and if that happens, we will deal with it, I just didn't want to make an obvious mistake...

Cross breeds are not necessarily healthier, it depends on what health issues and genetic problems the two breeds being crossed are prone to!

I'm not especially familiar with either staffs or patterdales in terms of what checks should be carried out before breeding, but would recommend a look at the breed club guidelines for both, and ask the breeder if the relevant health checks were carried out and if there is any history of any of the main problems. For example, it seems there are a few hereditary conditions that staffies should be tested for before they are bred from:

http://thesbtc.org.uk/?page_id=100
http://thesbtc.org.uk/?page_id=102
http://thesbtc.org.uk/?page_id=104

I'd be a bit concerned that you may be buying from a backyard breeder, to be honest.

krlyr

I would put more stock into the way you choose your breeder, rather than which puppy you choose from them.

Whether they're a backyard breeder, someone who just breeds the occasional litter for the enjoyment, or just an accidental litter (that they haven't learnt from in the past), it sounds like there's been no real research into the health of either parents. Whether you pick the runt or the biggest pup from the lot, you're buying from untested parents and there will be a gamble with their health with any of the pups.

OK, health testing doesn't guarantee you'll have a healthy pup that lives to its full lifespan, but it certainly makes it less of a gamble. Knowing that the parents are in good health, and not carriers of any of the illnesses or health issues the breed(s) are prone to goes a long way - and knowing the history beyond just the parents is important too. The Kennel Club have pages that show which tests they recommend for particular breeds - Staffies, for example, are prone to several eye issues and should be screened for that. Patterdales aren't recognised by the KC as yet, but you may wish to look up health issues that similar breeds are prone to.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=3080


My personal recommendation would be to do some catchup work and ask this breeder some questions you should have asked already, such as what health tests were done, what knowledge they have on the lineage of either parents, and so on. If they don't know, or seem to be vague with their answers, walk away and seek out someone who does the appropriate research and tests.

It's not just about health tests either - but the socialisation (this doesn't mean "how many dogs/people has the puppy met", but includes exposing pup to household noises, to different surfaces and smells, etc. during the critical periods as a pup) aspect too, plus how the mum was treated during pregnancy (studies have shown this to have an effect on the puppies - e.g. a mum that is stressed during her pregnancy is likely to have puppies that are more prone to being stressed during their life) - all important factors that will shape how the puppy acts as well as its health. And good breeder should happily explain (or even show) what kind of work they've done to ensure the pups' health and temperament are given the best chance possible.

I know it's tough when you've met the puppies and fallen in love - but supporting a good breeder leads to a future of happy, healthy dogs, with less health and temperament issues. Supporting a BYB or a casual hobby breeder who doesn't do their research will encourage them to breed again and again - whether it's for the money or for the enjoyment of raising a litter, if they can rehome all the pups then they'll keep doing it, with no incentive to change their methods.


The following links are worth a read:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-breeder/
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/good_breeder
http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog-owners/choosing-a-puppy

GwylimT

Runts aren't a problem at all, but if the breeder is giving them adequate supplementary feeds, the size difference should be fairly small after two weeks.

Both parents need full health testing appropriate for their breed.

So staffy needs the three tests as outlined on the link below, if done the breeder will have a copy of the results. Not doing this would be an obvious mistake

Both parents need to be registered, and the breeder should have a copy of the males family tree.

Mum must not have more than one litter in any twelve month period.

If none of the above are done it is a back yard breeder.

What food is mum eating? Not what age stage, what brand?

To be honest allowing a viewing of two day old pups rings huge alarm bells.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=3080

Sagz_2

Some pups 'fade', sometimes whole litters. I have alarm bells ringing about a breeder who allows viewings and takes deposits at 2 days old.
If they have 9 dogs at home, are you sure that mum only got mated once? Little pup could maybe have a different dad?
Staff x Patterdale will most likely have a strong, outgoing, character...... not one I'd feel up to taking on!

Pups are very cute, all pups are, but please go into the commitment with your eyes open. Good luck.

Fosterdog

I agree with some of the other posters that this breeder doesn't seem like a responsible breeder (in my eyes anyone who knowingly breeds mongrels is irresponsible, other people's views differ).

That said if you are set in getting a pup from this litter the chances are the one pup is smaller just because of the breed mix, they are all mongrels and the chances are they will all look completely different when older. It may just be that the rest will grow to staffy size and the one will only grow to patterdale size.

owlet

My Shih Tzu was the smallest of her litter by some way. The biggest is double her weight and size. We had to see the vet a few times in the first 6 months but only for general things that cleared up fine - nothing ongoing.

Our vet said that the smallest of a litter often has little things crop up in the first year then their immunity builds and in our case a very healthy, intelligent & happy little dog. She fits so well in our household that it feels like we've had her forever.

Her mum is 4kg & her dad is 5kg - our tiny baby has grown up to 6kg so all good.

She is a complete bundle of joy :-)

*Robin*

Loads of alarm bells ringing:
Apart from all the queries above re puppy-parents' health, the inadvisability of allowing any stranger near the pups at such a young age etc., it seems likely that the little one doesn't have the same Dad as the big pair (very different size and markings, shape of head and ears).
Then there's the fact that the owner decided to feed puppy food to the dam during pregnancy - that is not the way to get strong, healthy pups!

OP, tell us you are not being asked to buy this cute little mutt?

Please read up on back-yard breeders, and then do your best to persuade the owners of the dam to have her spayed - shelters are already stuffed full of staffies / staff-crosses; bringing more into the World just increases the problem!

gettingready

OP - you says those people have 9 dogs at home, you say this is not first litter for this mix of parents.. with 9 dogs at home one would never know anyway, sorry. And viewing pups at 2 days old etc etc. There is too many warning bells here. How did you find those pups? Free ads I guess?

This is not a breeder as most people will agree - this is someone out for the money from random matings. By buying a puppy from them you simply encourage them to breed more in the future.



If you are after a mix breed pup - shelters are full of them, pls reconsider