Yikes a PCN

eppie

Just as fond memories of a fab short break in Cornwall are blurring into the distance I open an innocuous looking letter which arrived today ( well now yesterday looking at the clock) to get catapulted into the murky world of private parking .This is a first for me …not sure whether this is because I have been lucky or that I should get out more …anyway have spent the last few hours pouring over this site to get some help.
I got stung in Newquay by Parking Eye . The PCN is based on APNR info so no ticket on windscreen…says we overstayed by 11 minutes. When we first drove in we dithered re whether to park as this still looked further away from Fistral Beach than we expected ( I am 60 and hubbie is 65) . Decided to park ,went to machine and paid for an hour …had to wait for small queue , then realised I did not have correct t money, then machine not working and had to wander over to another machine . Plus time when we returned to car to disrobe from all the paraphernalia because of the poor weather so all in all we end up 1 minute outside what looks to be a 10 minute period of grace which should be allowed in latest guidelines.
My head is spinning from all the examples I have seen of appeals …and an appeal is what I propose to do …golden rule looks to be do not admit I was the driver and respond as Registered Keeper but how can I get in the bit above re why we took slightly longer without admitting I was driver…alas we do not actually have the ticket itself ( did not occur to me we would need to keep) but I would not mind betting we would have left within the one hour actually purchased from machine ..and certainly within the 10minutes period of grace.
Also slightly confused about timing of receipt of PCN.. I have read that as no ticket on windscreen this should have been issued to Registered Keeper within 14days…is this issued or received ?Letter only arrived today but it says issued on 10 May -even second class mail should be quicker than that. I have the envelope but no obvious postal date on it although I am going to ask post office if the funny code marks can be deciphered re date of posting ? Can I find out when DVLA actually released info to them ?Am I clutching at straws to add this as another reason for appeal?
Any help gratefully received …will pick up tomorrow now as head hurts!

Umkomaas

1. Welcome, you're about to find your way through the murky world you've just entered.

2. Essential reading - NEWBIES FAQ sticky near the top of the forum thread list - post #1 only at this stage (use post #2 for acronym unraveling).

3. PE use ANPR cameras to capture entry and exit - not parking - so there's some timing differences. Your 'contract' with them is for actual parking, so something to make of that (but later when you get to the POPLA stage, not now).

4. A NtK must be delivered by day 15 after the parking event. If the 'issue date' on the NtK is beyond that, or so tight as to have made it impossible to deliver by day 15, you have a very good case provided you don't reveal who the driver was. You do this by taking every 'me, myself and I' out of any communication you enter. Instead of saying 'I parked the car', you say 'the driver parked the car'.

5. Grace periods. Your get-out-of-jail card. PE are required by their BPA Code of Practice to allow 10 minutes to enter the car park, find a space, go to a pay machine, collect ticket, return to the car to display it. At the end of parking they must allow at least 10 minutes to exit the car park (and at Fistral Beach - and we deal with disproportionate numbers of FB cases here - that's not an easy matter at the height of the holiday season). In total that adds a further 20 minutes minimum to your parking time.

6. 'What happened' on the day (mitigation) is largely irrelevant and won't help you. You will need to win this on legal and technical points (we'll help you with those), but primarily at the second stage appeal at POPLA, not now. Your initial appeal to PE will be aimed at securing your POPLA appeal verification code which comes with your initial appeal rejection from PE. The initial appeal is written for you (the blue text one) in the sticky. Don't try to change or add/subtract anything, it's carefully crafted to avoid any identification of the driver. Don't miss any deadline imposed by PE (28 days at the initial appeal stage) as this can lead to further difficulties down the line.

7. The newbies sticky and reference back to us at key points in the process you will now start, will help see you through.

HTH.

Grimble

Always keep letter and envelope.

DollyDee_2

Those bl00dy pay machines have been faulty for years!

Was it Tower Road? The one with the Bunker Cafe just past the golf club?

eppie

Thank you for this ...fingers crossed

eppie

Yes you guessed it...looking on this site it seems to be notorious

eppie

This will probably get the prize for todays dumb question but I just want to make sure that this is the letter I should send ...no changes ....and then use other stuff like the grace period and date of receipt of PCN later


THanks


Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

pappa_golf

Here is a template appeal that doesn't give away the driver & gets a rejection letter with a POPLA code. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper of course.

If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car, see separate section below) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers. Do not appeal if the parking event was in Scotland/NI, see separate section below.


Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,





{obviously add the registered keeper's name, obviously add your postal address even if emailing (!) as long as you are sure the PPC is an AOS member}

ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT!

NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE FOR FIRMS LIKE UKPC AND EURO CAR PARKS & PARKINGEYE, BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT THEN GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP A SCREEN PRINT. USE THE EMAIL APPEAL OPTION IF FIRMS OFFER IT - E.G. HORIZON, SMART, OR 'MET' AT MCDONALDS OFFER EMAIL APPEALS.

Umkomaas

This will probably get the prize for todays dumb question but I just want to make sure that this is the letter I should send ...no changes ....and then use other stuff like the grace period and date of receipt of PCN later

Yep, save that for later - the POPLA stage.