Discrimination ?

nathanjpj

the majority of my sickness was caused by poor management (proved via grievance) and poor NHS resources for mental health. factors beyond my control.

if I had been treated fairly by my employer, and received decent health care, I would not have a poor attendance record.

nathanjpj

sangie595 wrote: »

Why is it more reasonable to dismiss a non-disabled employee who has a bad year, than to dismiss a disabled employee who has a average (for them) year? Why does Joe get dismissed for two bouts of flu and then bronchitis, whilst Mary doesn't because she has the same amount of time off, but she has that amount of time off every year when Joe hasn't had a day off sick in the past twelve years? How is this fair? Or equal?

because, what you are forgetting is, people with disabilities, on average, suffer the same amount of non-disability related illness as colleagues (flu, injuries), plus they can suffer from illness and difficulties arising from their disability.

Mary will get dismissed when she has the same bad luck as Joe, but Joe will never have the same amount as bad luck as Mary, because, over time, she suffers the same random sickess as Joe, plus illness and difficulties arising from her disability.

to not discriminate and express bias when applying policy, it is only fair to redress the balance and take disability leave out of the equation. the opposite is discrimination.

nathanjpj

I'm aware I'm playing the world's tiniest violin here, but I have suffered for years

a few winters ago, I attempted suicide. I increased my meds, got some therapy, took only two weeks off, then returned to work.

sure, I'm no hero, but I've never been a scrounger or a shirker, either. I've always been an over-performer, regularly promoted, and open about and determined to cope with my disability. last year was a tough year. its behind me.

daytona0

nathanjpj wrote: »

the majority of my sickness was caused by poor management (proved via grievance) and poor NHS resources for mental health. factors beyond my control.

if I had been treated fairly by my employer, and received decent health care, I would not have a poor attendance record.

Do you want to know two factors which were in your control?

1. Seeking help sooner instead of waiting for "poor management" to tip you over the edge (surely you must understand that something in the future is probably going to aggravate the condition you were self managing?)

2. Clicking the following link for the NHS website and following the advice, including contacting support groups: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Prevention.aspx

If you want to know the absolute truth, but your Bipolar disorder is NOBODY'S FAULT. Don't blame poor management. Sure it made it worse, but so did you by not doing anything sooner. And if you want to criticise the NHS then you have to criticise all of those support groups on their webpage, and whilst you are at it why don't you stump up some money and pay for your own private treatment?

Andypandyboy

daytona0 wrote: »

Do you want to know two factors which were in your control?

1. Seeking help sooner instead of waiting for "poor management" to tip you over the edge (surely you must understand that something in the future is probably going to aggravate the condition you were self managing?)

2. Clicking the following link for the NHS website and following the advice, including contacting support groups: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Prevention.aspx

If you want to know the absolute truth, but your Bipolar disorder is NOBODY'S FAULT. Don't blame poor management. Sure it made it worse, but so did you by not doing anything sooner. And if you want to criticise the NHS then you have to criticise all of those support groups on their webpage, and whilst you are at it why don't you stump up some money and pay for your own private treatment?

I have no horse in this race but someone in the grip of a mental illness cannot always do what is best for their condition.

It is also a well known fact that NHS services are patchy for mental health issues. Furthermore, mental illlness is no different to physical illness in that it is covered by the NHS or it should be. Would you be happy to be forced to pay for treatment for a broken leg or a stroke?

Oh, I am a fully paid up member of BUPA, so my treatments are covered, but that is by choice, not necessity, as it should be.

sangie595

Ok OP. So you don't agree with anyone who doesn't accept your version of the world. And I notice you also don't answer any questions that don't fit your version of the world either. So... It had been asked more than once. It costs £1250 to make a tribunal claim. Put up or shut up. If you have evidence of discrimination, make a claim. But before you rush off to spend your money, be sure you have a valid claim. Because so far you appear to be unsure why they withdrew the offer, have no more ability to predict the future than they have so can't say that you won't be off sick, and appear to be complaining about being treated equally.

Last year was a tough year for me too. I had nearly three months of work due to disability related sickness. As a result I am in absence management processes. And I work for a union! The bottom line is that no employer can simply write of sickness and pretend it doesn't happen. It doesn't matter how good you are - you aren't anything if you aren't there. That is true of every employee, disability or not.

daytona0

Andypandyboy wrote: »

I have no horse in this race but someone in the grip of a mental illness cannot always do what is best for their condition.

I agree, but I just don't think it is fair to try and blame the current employer if the issues were underlying. Not to discount what they've done, but it just sounds like an excuse or someone to blame.

It is also a well known fact that NHS services are patchy for mental health issues. Furthermore, mental illlness is no different to physical illness in that it is covered by the NHS or it should be. Would you be happy to be forced to pay for treatment for a broken leg or a stroke?

My point is that the NHS is a free healthcare service, and in other countries the help would cost quite a bit of money.

My second point is that the NHS website lists a number of support groups, so to say that NHS support is patchy must assume that they've approached those groups and found them unhelpful too?

nathanjpj

sangie595 wrote: »

Ok OP. So you don't agree with anyone who doesn't accept your version of the world. And I notice you also don't answer any questions that don't fit your version of the world either. So... It had been asked more than once. It costs £1250 to make a tribunal claim. Put up or shut up. If you have evidence of discrimination, make a claim. But before you rush off to spend your money, be sure you have a valid claim. Because so far you appear to be unsure why they withdrew the offer, have no more ability to predict the future than they have so can't say that you won't be off sick, and appear to be complaining about being treated equally.

Last year was a tough year for me too. I had nearly three months of work due to disability related sickness. As a result I am in absence management processes. And I work for a union! The bottom line is that no employer can simply write of sickness and pretend it doesn't happen. It doesn't matter how good you are - you aren't anything if you aren't there. That is true of every employee, disability or not.

I'm here to openly discuss, and I'm openly discussing. I don't have time to respond to ALL your questions. And you are wrong, an employer CAN take disability leave out of the equation when applying policy, including recruitment policy, and an NHS organisation SHOULD do this. They have an obligation to (see below).

What I know is - someone without my disability would have gotten the job, because they would not have my abscences due to difficulties arising from my disability. To count those abscences is to hold a mirror to my disability. It is most likely discrimination in my case.

"a ‘reasonable adjustment’ in the management of sickness absence would be to proportionately modify policies or absence triggers so a disabled employee is not at a disadvantage compared to a non-disabled employee". ACAS

I was put at a disadvantage, as a non-disabled person would never require the disability leave I had.

"Some employers have policies separating disability-related sickness absence from other illness absence. And some have a policy allowing ‘disability leave’. They are not legal requirements for employers, but are good practice in the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s Employment Statutory Code of Practice.
Such policies are more common in the public sector, and in private or voluntary organisations carrying out work for a public sector employer. This is because of what is called the ‘public sector equality duty’ where these employers have a legal duty to prevent and eliminate discrimination." ACAS

The job offer was removed based on my disability leave, by a two-ticks NHS employer. I am drafting a complaint letter and I will be calling a solicitor tomorrow. Thanks for all the discussion to all. Arguments need to be strongly challenged to become firm.

ohreally

Focus your energy on finding a job, chasing this is liable to be an exercise in futility.

As your ACAS quote informs...

nathanjpj wrote: »

They are not legal requirements for employers

nathanjpj

I won't get another job for the same reasons. I appear stuck with the NHS employer where I was bullied. Every day is challenging and a reminder of what happened.

I need a break, but only public bodies will give me one. This NHS employer have outsourced their HR services privately, and they are not following NHS rules. Sux.

Note I also said, ... the ‘public sector equality duty’ where these employers have a legal duty to prevent and eliminate discrimination." ACAS