Can the UK afford the NHS (in its current form)?

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

I've just realised how ridiculous the original question is.

We're a first world economy who only participate in wars of our choosing. We're supposed to be one of the biggest economies on the planet. And we've got one of the cheapest healthcare systems in the first world.

If we can't afford our NHS, who on earth can afford anything?

No country is rich enough to provide all the healthcare that all of its citizens would like to consume for free. The argument isn't how taxpayers can pay for healthcare that is given away it's what is the best way to ration healthcare.

At present the UK model is to ration by queuing: if you need a new hip then you will wait several months for it and probably find that you face some pretty substantial opposition to being put onto a waiting list for it. This is quite an interesting prezzo on deaths on waiting lists in Wales.

http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/documents/986/Stephen%20Dorman%20-%20Cardiac%20Surgery%20Waiting%20list%20mortality%20-%20amended%20040414.pdf

It is interesting to note that for all the 'envy of the world' guff, not one single country has opted to use the NHS as a model for healthcare provision, every country that I can think of that has a proper public health system uses some form of co-payment system to introduce some financial rationing into it, especially into the non-urgent parts.

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

No country is rich enough to provide all the healthcare that all of its citizens would like to consume for free. The argument isn't how taxpayers can pay for healthcare that is given away it's what is the best way to ration healthcare.

At present the UK model is to ration by queuing: if you need a new hip then you will wait several months for it and probably find that you face some pretty substantial opposition to being put onto a waiting list for it. This is quite an interesting prezzo on deaths on waiting lists in Wales.

http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/documents/986/Stephen%20Dorman%20-%20Cardiac%20Surgery%20Waiting%20list%20mortality%20-%20amended%20040414.pdf

It is interesting to note that for all the 'envy of the world' guff, not one single country has opted to use the NHS as a model for healthcare provision, every country that I can think of that has a proper public health system uses some form of co-payment system to introduce some financial rationing into it, especially into the non-urgent parts.

I don't believe that "envy of the world" guff as I think the rest of the world thinks our system is dirt cheap but supplies only a pathetic amount of healthcare. I do wonder if nobody's thought that the funding could be expanded to typical first-world levels.

fatbeetle

lawriejones1 wrote: »

Journalists don't collect or process national statistics, so I can't answer your question directly (My guess is that nobody actually could accurately). But feel free to use your rights - probably soon to be taken away - to request an FOI from the DH.

Scratching the surface, the DH itself estimates that: "The gross cost of 'deliberate' health tourism for urgent treatment in England to anywhere between £110 million and £280 million."

That's a fraction of 1% of the entire NHS budget.

The others who claim treatment are legitimately entitled to live here. There does seem a problem claiming this money back actually, but they (and their families) do contribute to the UK economy, so I can't complain too much.

Here's one reasonable estimate of the costs

'Deliberate' use of the NHS—use by those who come here specifically to receive free treatment or who come for other reasons but take advantage of the system when they're here—is hard to quantify. It's thought to be very roughly between £110 million and £280 million a year.

'Normal' use of the NHS—by foreign visitors who've ended up being treated while in England—is estimated to cost about £1.8 billion a year.

The majority of these costs aren't currently charged for. Only about £500 million is thought to be recoverable or chargeable at the moment.

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/