Can the UK afford the NHS (in its current form)?

lawriejones1

CLAPTON wrote: »

your solution is to blame the patient.

That's not what I mean at all, but subtlety is in short supply on the internet. I'm saying that the NHS delivers treatment to people. That's its job.

The other agencies out there should work tackle some of the lifestyle issues that cause put our NHS under strain. That's common sense, not blaming the patient.

It's the same logic that advises people at higher risk of certain cancers to avoid certain foods. Is that meddling or just helpful advice?

Personally, my children may be at risk for certain health problems. I was told there are things I can do to mitigate that. Was that meddling?

lawriejones1

CLAPTON wrote: »

if you really are a journalist in the healthcare sector then tell us how much money we recover from EU migrants and how much from other foreigners.

Journalists don't collect or process national statistics, so I can't answer your question directly (My guess is that nobody actually could accurately). But feel free to use your rights - probably soon to be taken away - to request an FOI from the DH.

Scratching the surface, the DH itself estimates that: "The gross cost of 'deliberate' health tourism for urgent treatment in England to anywhere between £110 million and £280 million."

That's a fraction of 1% of the entire NHS budget.

The others who claim treatment are legitimately entitled to live here. There does seem a problem claiming this money back actually, but they (and their families) do contribute to the UK economy, so I can't complain too much.

missbiggles1

lawriejones1 wrote: »

Of course immigrants very rarely get free care. We claim the money back through their systems (as they do with the E111). Foreign nationals outside the EU are charged for care unless they have been here for a set period of time and are legally allowed to be here, often contributing to the country's economy.

The E111 hasn't existed for years and its successor, the EHIC, is invalid once a person becomes a resident in another country. The only EU patients for whom the NHS can claim costs back are visitors and those residents who are over retirement age whose healthcare costs are covered by their home country by the S1 form.

If you are really a journalist in this sector, I'm surprised you don't know all that.

oldandhappy

We have a EHIC card valid for use when on Holiday in any EU country and we live in France so can not use it in the country you live in of course. S2 when authorised is for treatment in EU countries, likewise people can come to France from UK for treatment once authorised with the form of the day!

lawriejones1

missbiggles1 wrote: »

The E111 hasn't existed for years and its successor, the EHIC, is invalid once a person becomes a resident in another country. The only EU patients for whom the NHS can claim costs back are visitors and those residents who are over retirement age whose healthcare costs are covered by their home country by the S1 form.

If you are really a journalist in this sector, I'm surprised you don't know all that.

I don't work in NHS finance, but you're right I did confuse the E111 for the EHIC, classic error. Perhaps I should more time doing my job than posting on forums!

It's also find it funny that people would question whether I really was a journalist, as if there would be anything to gain in making that sort of thing up :-)

CLAPTON

lawriejones1 wrote: »

I don't work in NHS finance, but you're right I did confuse the E111 for the EHIC, classic error. Perhaps I should more time doing my job than posting on forums!

It's also find it funny that people would question whether I really was a journalist, as if there would be anything to gain in making that sort of thing up :-)

you chose to describe yourself as a journalist in the health sector presumably to gain some status or authority
it appears you know little about the subject :
just say so.

missbiggles1

lawriejones1 wrote: »

I don't work in NHS finance, but you're right I did confuse the E111 for the EHIC, classic error. Perhaps I should more time doing my job than posting on forums!

It's also find it funny that people would question whether I really was a journalist, as if there would be anything to gain in making that sort of thing up :-)

Given that making things up comes naturally for many journalists, perhaps you should take it as a compliment?;)

ETA
Confusing the E111 with the EHIC might be understandable, saying "Of course immigrants very rarely get free care. We claim the money back through their systems " is rather less so because (with the exceptions I mentioned earlier) it's totally wrong.

lawriejones1

CLAPTON wrote: »

you chose to describe yourself as a journalist in the health sector presumably to gain some status or authority
it appears you know little about the subject :
just say so.

That's a bit harsh but fair enough. I thought I'd add a different perspective and add to the discussion, but not to worry.

I don't need to get my validation from online forums, so I shall take your comment as a compliment and am glad that I've helped you. I wish you well on your journey.

Keep it up and you'll be at 40,000 posts soon!

Samsonite1

Is it possible to pay for better emergency care? Despite having the most comprehensive health cover from my employer that covers my family, the only two visits to hospital (and follow up appointments) have been unfortunately for my toddler having a couple of accidents. The first one involved a 5 hour wait until 11pm to get the poor kid seen to for a large gash and lots of blood. This was down to low staff levels.

A French mother joked that we could jump on the Eurostar and get seen within 10 minutes in France and get back home with the same amount of time...

I feel completely helpless that there is nothing you can do get a young child urgently seen to.

zagubov

I've just realised how ridiculous the original question is.

We're a first world economy who only participate in wars of our choosing. We're supposed to be one of the biggest economies on the planet. And we've got one of the cheapest healthcare systems in the first world.

If we can't afford our NHS, who on earth can afford anything?