Should I make my own will due to arguments

sadie22

nom_de_plume wrote: »

You can check on-line for £3 - https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Thank you for the link, I have looked on the sample download (not my title deeds) , and can't see the information regarding Tennants in Common or joint tennants, is it worded differently ?

Brighty

sadie22 wrote: »

Thank you for the link, I have looked on the sample download (not my title deeds) , and can't see the information regarding Tennants in Common or joint tennants, is it worded differently ?

Look for the wording along the lines of

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court"

If it's there, you are tenants in common, if not, joint tenants

Brighty

Yorkshireman99

Brighty wrote: »

Look for the wording along the lines of

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court"

If it's there, you are tenants in common, if not, joint tenants

Brighty

Unfortunately it is a serious flaw in the LR system that this is a good guide but is not absolutely definitive. The OP really needs to speak to the solicitor who registered the property to be sure.

sadie22

I have just rang up Land Registry after downloading the deeds and there is no information on there, so I presume it is joint tenants, (i will check with my solicitor)

so If i die before my partner , my partner would get all the house, so definately need to get a will done and change the 'joint tenants' to Tennants in commen, but if he dies, i will probably no doubt have to pay his children, half the house, which i don't mind.
My partner has enough money in the reverse situation, if i die, he can either pay my son half of what the house is worth, or sell it and buy another house.
Gets a bit confusing doesn't it and i'm slowly learning, i understand things arn't probably as simple as this......... but i'm learning.

rpc

sadie22 wrote: »

so If i die before my partner , my partner would get all the house, so definately need to get a will done and change the 'joint tenants' to Tennants in commen, but if he dies, i will probably no doubt have to pay his children, half the house, which i don't mind.

If you are joint tenants, the house isn't part of the estate on the first death so it can't be distributed.

If you die first, he would take full ownership of the house and the rest of your assets would get split as per will or intestacy. Then, when he dies the whole house is inherited as per his will or intestacy.

Same in reverse. You would not "have" to pay his children (nor he yours) because the house would never be part of the estate.

You can sever the tenancy and change this.

In all cases, beware IHT! Never mind about love and all that gubbins, getting married is very tax efficient! It also changes the distribution of the estate on an intestate death.

Mojisola

sadie22 wrote: »

We both have paid equal amounts on the mortage, which is now finished.

We spoke about getting a will done, this is where the disagreement begins: I wanted for my son to have 50% of our house if we both die and his 3 children to have the other 50%, My partner disagrees and said for the house to be shared between all kids 25% each.

sadie22 wrote: »

I have just rang up Land Registry after downloading the deeds and there is no information on there, so I presume it is joint tenants, (i will check with my solicitor)

so definately need to get a will done and change the 'joint tenants' to Tennants in commen

If the discussion about how to share out the money between the four children caused problems, how is he going to take you changing the joint tenancy to TIC?

Land_Registry

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Unfortunately it is a serious flaw in the LR system that this is a good guide but is not absolutely definitive. The OP really needs to speak to the solicitor who registered the property to be sure.

As Yorkshireman99 appreciates the registered information is not the definitive source when deciding whether a joint ownership is held as joint tenants or tenants in common.

Such registered joint owners of land, i.e. the owners at law, may not be the same persons as the equitable owners (that is, the persons entitled to the benefit of the land). And on their deaths the equitable interest(s) may not pass in the same way as the legal ownership does.

We only register legal estates and that may be the flaw being referred to here. The proprietor is registered as the owner of the legal estate. The register does not guarantee that the proprietor is the beneficial owner (i.e. they own the land for their own benefit).

So in essence many people will look for the form A restriction wording for confirmation that they hold it as tenants in common.
The truth is though that you may hold it as tenants in common by virtue of a trust deed/declaration of trust for example but never applied for or registered the restriction.

So the OP could assume that they are 'joint tenants' but is right to check with their solicitor especially with regards understanding the effect of being tenants in common has on the two of them re the property as it is not as simple as many believe.

Yorkshireman99

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

As Yorkshireman99 appreciates the registered information is not the definitive source when deciding whether a joint ownership is held as joint tenants or tenants in common.

Such registered joint owners of land, i.e. the owners at law, may not be the same persons as the equitable owners (that is, the persons entitled to the benefit of the land). And on their deaths the equitable interest(s) may not pass in the same way as the legal ownership does.

We only register legal estates and that may be the flaw being referred to here. The proprietor is registered as the owner of the legal estate. The register does not guarantee that the proprietor is the beneficial owner (i.e. they own the land for their own benefit).

So in essence many people will look for the form A restriction wording for confirmation that they hold it as tenants in common.
The truth is though that you may hold it as tenants in common by virtue of a trust deed/declaration of trust for example but never applied for or registered the restriction.

So the OP could assume that they are 'joint tenants' but is right to check with their solicitor especially with regards understanding the effect of being tenants in common has on the two of them re the property as it is not as simple as many believe.

Thanks for that. Perhaps flaw is the wrong word but what I was trying to explain that many people regard the LR entry as definitive. IMHO the system needs to be modified so that beneficial interests are recorded. This would greatly improve the value of the LR information. The reason I say this is that it can, albeit rarely, be extremely difficult to prove, or disprove who the beneficial owner is.

relaxtwotribes

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

If you were both crushed by a falling piano tomorrow your estates would be split as per your wishes, however most people do not go together, so there is a big problem for both of you if you don't make wills.

For anyone who is interested, the law decrees that when two people die simultaneously, as in a falling piano accident (!), then it is deemed that the older of the two has died first. Hence, why wills often include the "30 day survivorship clause".

getmore4less

relaxtwotribes wrote: »

For anyone who is interested, the law decrees that when two people die simultaneously, as in a falling piano accident (!), then it is deemed that the older of the two has died first. Hence, why wills often include the "30 day survivorship clause".

Not in all cases,

people need to read up on the various laws and impacts as they can be different from what you may expect from the oldest first particularly with IHT.

The key term is commorientes