Unclear expiry time, weekday/end rates interface

Rez99

Hello,
New to the forum,but read through the stickies to see where I am.
But i still want clarification as to if i have a good case here or not.
I will try to be as clear as possible here.

My car got 'Parking Charge Notice' on the windscreen from Euro car parks where i think the land is also owned by Euro car parks.

The driver had paid until (say) 2AM when wanting a ticket to 2PM. The display states in 24hr format without the AM/PM due to its format where one element of error came from.

There are 2 sources of consideration that lead to this mistake.
1. the display and ticket is both in 24 hr format without the AM/PM being clear
2. The car park has 2 rates. normal rate for weekday and cheaper rate for weekend.
The driver wishes to keep the car from Friday to Saturday for a duration of 24 hours.
As its two rates the driver thought he will add money until he saw 2PM.
The sign is not clear that if paid on a weekday you must pay same rate for weekend which should be cheaper.

Other things to note is that the difference in cost between 12 hr and 24 hr for weekday is 30p difference.

Does the driver stand any chances on this?

Help would be greatly appreciated, and my apologies if the above scenario is mentioned anywhere, i searched and found not much similar. .. maybe because its idiotic? I'm not certain.

Many thanks in advanced

Fruitcake

You should appeal to Euro using the BPA template in blue that you will find in the NEWBIES thread. That's all you need to do at this stage.

Make sure you appeal as KEEPER not driver. Send the appeal around day 22 by post or day 26 online. Copy and paste, no editing. Job done. If/when it is rejected you then need to read up on how to make a second stage appeal to PoPLA. hat's where you use the inadequate signage, confusing charges as well as all the other standard PoPLA appeal oints.

Never 'phone a PPC, do not pay, do not ignore, do not reveal who was driving, don't appeal too soon but don't miss the appeal deadline.

tripled

Rez99 wrote: »

the display and ticket is both in 24 hr format without the AM/PM being clear

AM/PM isn't used with 24 hour clock because it is clear. 02:00 = 2am, 14:00 = 2pm. It's actually clearer than using am/pm due to the whole when is 12am/12pm debate. Its usage is widespread and I would be surprised if I encountered a parking machine that used am/pm.

That being said, I wish you luck in your appeal. Although I don't think you'll get anywhere claiming that 24 hour clock is unclear, follow the good advice from others on this forum and hopefully you can avoid this charge.

Rez99

OK, Many thanks for your read and direction !

I shall send that appeal on the 2nd of June.
Will keep updates for the record of others.

As for the 24hr display issue, I understand that the format does not require AM/PM display.
but when there are no references as to the display format, it is easily misunderstood what time is meant by any time before 13:00, especially if you got in your mind that you want till 1PM.
This is just my opinion though, and i appreciate your comments and good will

Many thanks for now!

Fruitcake

Rez99 wrote: »

OK, Many thanks for your read and direction !

I shall send that appeal on the 2nd of June.
Will keep updates for the record of others.

As for the 24hr display issue, I understand that the format does not require AM/PM display.
but when there are no references as to the display format, it is easily misunderstood what time is meant by any time before 13:00, especially if you got in your mind that you want till 1PM.
This is just my opinion though, and i appreciate your comments and good will

Many thanks for now!

If you send a postal appeal, do it first class from a Post Office and get a free proof of posting. This is very important. Doing it online is the best method if available as it gets you closer to the appeal deadline giving the scammers less time to send out a POFA 2012 compliant NTK.

The_Slithy_Tove

Rez99 wrote: »

where i think the land is also owned by Euro car parks

Highly unlikely. What makes you think this is the case?

Rez99

Just an assumption I suppose!

Will see if i can find out at a later date!

Rez99

Well, i think its time to take this to the second stage appeal to PoPLA.

Reasons for rejection from ECP is as follows:-
Photographic evidence of expired ticket, and sign with costs

So now i can make an appeal through PoPLA on the 28th day from the date the letter was sent out?

Should I leave this till the last minute, or should I deal with it ASAP?

Redx

doesnt really matter when you do it as long as its a good appeal and done before the expiry date

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for 'Euro POPLA' to find recent good drafts to crib from. No keeper liability being point #1.

Rez99

Thank you Redx, Coupon-mad,
I'm currently reading through the Popla claim examples, but in the meanwhile, i would like some of your opinions based on the pictures uploaded.

I would like you to see the pictures of the site when i revisited the site.
1) The first pictures shoes the entrance to the car park. The entrance is usually hard to see and hard to maneuver into. On top of that, the parking entrance sings are very small and usually obstructed. (i do not recall what it was like on the day)

2) The only big sign is on the ground and not a valid sign. On the final picture of the list(taken at a even later date, i found it covered by with a black vinyl thing?

3) 5th pictures shows the parking price in tiny numbers, these numbers are printed in red and stuck over the top of the original print. The evidence photo they had given has it in the original ford in blue, however I cannot recall which state it as in on the day (tiny numbered stickers, or original form without stickers stuck over. The sign is also very high up.

so far, on the popla appeal, I have just 3 points,

1) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers.
2) The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the POFA 2012 - no keeper liability.
3) The signage was not readable so there was no valid contract formed.

Finally, i would like to find out if the land is owned by ECP or not, might you know how to determine this?

Many thanks in advance

Edit: I cannot seem to add links to the pictures, could anyone advise on how I can share these?

ʍǝɔʍƐ/ɐ/ɯoɔ˙ɹnƃɯᴉ//:dʇʇɥ upside down text for link to pictures...