Leak in flat - having to move out

K.Findlay

We have had awful problems with a leak in our new flat. We are first time buyers so any thoughts or advice appreciated.

We bought and moved into our 2 bed flat in East London in March this year. It is the upstairs maisonette of a terraced house. We are a leaseholder, as is the landlord for the downstairs flat.

The weekend we moved in, the tenant downstairs said water was dripping through his bathroom ceiling (which is below our bathroom). We took a look and their bathroom was in an awful state- there was a lot of old water damage and it looked like there had been a leak for some time, however it had apparently only just started dripping from the middle of the ceiling. We took the bath panel off our bath to find a leak from the overflow pipe –which just hadn’t been connected. It made sense as I had just had a bath. We got a plumber to ensure everything else under the bath was ok.

At that point we learned the relationship between the landlord and tenant downstairs had completely broken down. The landlord no longer had access to the flat and the tenant was being taken to court for not paying his rent. The tenant also had substance abuse issues and was difficult/abusive with us the short time he was our neighbour.

A couple of weeks later the tenant was evicted, and the landlord was in touch to say the leak was still ongoing. Our bath was fine, so it was obviously a separate issue. A builder discovered that a pipe between the two floors had caused a bigger leak. He took out our sink unit to find a pipe in our bathroom hadn’t been ‘capped’ properly, and just knocked to bend it, and water had been coming out of it for quite some time.

The insurance company for the building has been out today to take a look and thinks the whole bathroom floor will be rotten and need replaced. Our whole bathroom floor is tiled so we would have been none the wiser from our flat. As it’s our only shower, it’s estimated we will need to be out of the flat for 6 weeks while it can be replaced, which would be a huge inconvenience.

We know our bathroom was done up in the last three years when the previous owner lived there. The tenant downstairs had been there for all that time, so it’s likely the leak has been ongoing for up to three years.

I’m really wondering who’s responsibility this is, and if we can seek some compensation, especially if we have to move out.

- Is it worth finding out which plumber put in the bathroom and clearly did a really shoddy job?
- Is it likely the guy who sold us the flat was aware of an issue?
- Is the responsibility with us because it’s our flat?
- Is the responsibility with the landlord downstairs because the leak had clearly been ongoing for months if not years and had been unchecked?
- Should our surveyor from when we bought the property a few weeks ago, not have picked this up?
- Would the cost for re-doing our bathroom floor be put on the building insurance, or our flat insurance?

Thanks in advance. Any advice on how to go forward would be really appreciated.

Guest101

You. You are, it's called due diligence.


(possibly your surveyor too, depending what you paid him for)

HappyMJ

K.Findlay wrote: »

We have had awful problems with a leak in our new flat. We are first time buyers so any thoughts or advice appreciated.

We bought and moved into our 2 bed flat in East London in March this year. It is the upstairs maisonette of a terraced house. We are a leaseholder, as is the landlord for the downstairs flat.

The weekend we moved in, the tenant downstairs said water was dripping through his bathroom ceiling (which is below our bathroom). We took a look and the bathroom was in an awful state- there was a lot of water old water damage and it looked like there had been a leak for some time, however it had apparently only just started dripping from the middle of the ceiling. We took the bath panel off to find a leak from the overflow pipe –which just hadn’t been connected. It made sense as I had just had a bath. We got a plumber to ensure everything else under the bath was ok.

At that point we learned the relationship between the landlord and tenant downstairs had completely broken down. The landlord no longer had access to the flat and the tenant was being taken to court for not paying his rent. The tenant was also had substance abuse issues and was difficult/abusive to deal with us the short time he was our neighbour.

A couple of weeks later the tenant was evicted, and the landlord was in touch to say the leak was still ongoing. The bath was fine, so it was obviously an additional, bigger issue. A builder discovered that a pipe between the two floors had caused the bigger. He took out our sink unit to find a pipe in our bathroom hadn’t been ‘capped’ properly, and just knocked to bend it, and water had been coming out of it for quite some time.

The insurance company for the building has been out today to take a look and thinks the whole bathroom floor will be rotten and need replaced. The whole bathroom floor is tiled so we would have been none the wiser from our flat. As it’s our only bathroom, it’s estimated we will need to be out of the flat for 6 weeks, which would be a huge inconvenience.

We know our bathroom was done up in the last three years when the previous owner lived there. The tenant downstairs had been there for all that time, so it’s likely the leak has been ongoing for up to three years.

I’m really wondering who’s responsibility is this, and if we can seek some compensation.

- Is it worth finding out which plumber put in the bathroom and clearly did a really shoddy job?
- Is it likely the guy who sold us the flat was aware of an issue?
- Is the responsibility with us because it’s our flat?
- Is the responsibility with the landlord downstairs because the leak had clearly been ongoing for months if not years?
- Should our surveyor from when we bought the property a few weeks ago, not have picked this up?
- Would the cost for re-doing our bathroom floor be put on the building insurance, or our flat insurance?



Thanks in advance.

It's not a new flat. It's a flat with previous owners.

You would claim on the buildings insurance and you will get your bathroom back in the state it was before any damage occurred.

If the insurer wishes to claim against the insurance policy of the plumber that's up to the insurance company that provides you with buildings insurance.

The floor is a fixture and covered by the buildings insurance. If it was carpeted the carpet may be considered as contents as you can remove carpet and take it with you but as it's tiled it's a fixture. Tiles cannot be removed without destroying them when you leave.

AnotherJoe

Guest101 wrote: »

You. You are, it's called due diligence.


(possibly your surveyor too, depending what you paid him for)

I think thats more than overly harsh. Way more.No surveyor is going to inspect a bathroom in a flat below, or take bath panels off to check for leaks or rip up tiles to look underneath.

You should claim on insurance for the cost of being in another place for 6 weeks. Whether thats the buildings or your contents I'm unsure though I suspect it would be the buildings to which you presumably contribute as part of your service charges.

Guest101

AnotherJoe wrote: »

I think thats more than overly harsh. Way more.No surveyor is going to inspect a bathroom in a flat below, or take bath panels off to check for leaks or rip up tiles to look underneath.

You should claim on insurance for the cost of being in another place for 6 weeks. Whether thats the buildings or your contents I'm unsure though I suspect it would be the buildings to which you presumably contribute as part of your service charges.

I agree typically they wont, though signs of water in the floors could be picked up.


It's not overly harsh, it's getting rid of this 'it's someone else's fault' mentality

eddddy

K.Findlay wrote: »

- Is it worth finding out which plumber put in the bathroom and clearly did a really shoddy job?
- Is it likely the guy who sold us the flat was aware of an issue?
- Is the responsibility with us because it’s our flat?
- Is the responsibility with the landlord downstairs because the leak had clearly been ongoing for months if not years and had been unchecked?
- Should our surveyor from when we bought the property a few weeks ago, not have picked this up?
- Would the cost for re-doing our bathroom floor be put on the building insurance, or our flat insurance?

Unfortunately...

- You have never had a contract with the plumber who did the work, so it would be very difficult to claim from them.

- You could only claim from the guy that sold the flat if he misrepresented something in pre-contract enquiries (e.g. he said something like "I've checked the flat downstairs and there are no leaks from the bathroom" - when he hadn't really checked the flat downstairs).

- You can ask the surveyor - but if there was no evidence of a leak within the flat or outside the building, I doubt you have a case.


Has the insurer indicated that they will pay the claim? TBH - I'd be a little surprised if they did. The leaks have been known about for a long time (by the tenant downstairs) and nothing have been done about them - so damage has escalated. Plus, they are the result of poor workmanship.


It sounds like the only person who has been negligent is the tenant downstairs, by not reporting the leaks - sadly, it doesn't sound like it's worth making a claim against them.

K.Findlay

Thanks for the time and input, it's appreciated.

Apart from you, Guest101. Not only rude but I disagree about 'someone else's fault' mentality. It's a fair question to check other avenues for payment, especially given this website is called MONEYSAVINGexpert.com.

phill99

- Is it worth finding out which plumber put in the bathroom and clearly did a really shoddy job?


The bathroom went in three years ago. How do you know the bathroom fitter did a shoddy job? Anybody(including the people you bought the flat from) could have damaged the pipe. You will never know.

- Is it likely the guy who sold us the flat was aware of an issue?


You will never know and if he did, you would have to prove this. Good luck with this one.

- Is the responsibility with us because it’s our flat?


Correct

- Is the responsibility with the landlord downstairs because the leak had clearly been ongoing for months if not years and had been unchecked?


The landlord may have discussed it with the previous owner. But again, you will never know. If the relationship between the landlord downstairs and his tenant had broken down, how would you expect the landlord to know?
- Should our surveyor from when we bought the property a few weeks ago, not have picked this up?


If the water damage is not obvious, he will not rip up floor coverings to see if there maybe water damage somewhere. Read the rerms and conditions of your survey

- Would the cost for re-doing our bathroom floor be put on the building insurance, or our flat insurance?


The cost of repairs will come out of the buildings insurance which will be the policy that covers both flats. Your flat insurance is for contents, not the actual structure.


The reality is that a leak has occurred and is being dealt with by your buildings insurance. Trying to apportion blame or looking for somebody else to blame is a fruitless task. This is why you have buildings insurance.

AnotherJoe

Guest101 wrote: »

It's not overly harsh, it's getting rid of this 'it's someone else's fault' mentality

Ah.. To be fair I had skipped that "lets sue someone" aspect and was just focusing on the "how to get it fixed" , but its ironic when you say "get rid of the "its someone elses fault" mentality when you then say its their fault

Guest101

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Ah.. To be fair I had skipped that "lets sue someone" aspect and was just focusing on the "how to get it fixed" , but its ironic when you say "get rid of the "its someone elses fault" mentality when you then say its their fault

Well it's not my fault!

bouicca21

Unfortunately I'm in the same leaking club. I will also have to move out while repairs are carried out. In my case the leak is in pipe work that was installed just over two years ago, by the previous owner. It must have been leaking ever since I moved in, without me realising.

The prospective bill is eye watering. The work actually amounts to an almost complete refurbishment of a flat that I bought because it was so nicely refurbished. But at least the buildings insurance will pay out for everything except the actual repair to the pipe. I am told that the insurance company will try to go after whoever installed the pipe work. I have no idea who they were, though I can make an educated guess.

So it's the building insurers you have to go after. I have been agreeably surprised about just how nice and helpful the insurers are. Mind you it's dragging on and being without heating over the past month or so has tested my hardiness.