*URGENT* - Care Home fees and eviction threat

PasturesNew

Again, the words you say/mean differ from what the textbook takes them to mean.

When a home dispenses drugs it doesn't mean it's nursing care. Whether it's nursing care or just care will depend on whether the drugs being dispensed are being monitored/evaluated by the home, or whether they could hand a tablet to any care worker and say "Give that to Mavis".

Most people in a care home have drugs dispensed to them - by the 'qualified' drugs-giver, who is just a "regular person who has had some extra training". They dispense the drugs as the Doctor's told them to do, to the right people, tick it off in the book and keep the drugs trolley safe/secure.

To keep it simple, imagine if she were at your home: if the drugs she's given are drugs you could hand out to her if she were living at home, that's care. If the drugs could ONLY be dispensed by a visiting nurse/Doctor to your home, that's nursing care. Nursing homes have a fully qualified nurse on-site and that's part of their duties.

There might be lots, "take one in the morning, one at night", "take if she feels a bit sick", "take once a week", "take after food" - but they're all "care". Nursing care is when somebody needs to make an continuing assessment of whether a dose should be changed/discontinued or the drug withheld entirely.

Person_one

missusd wrote: »

I really have no idea then - all I know is she has round the clock care and a nurse administers her drugs. I would have to check this.

It could be a nurse, if she is in a nursing home then there is one on duty at all times (usually only one though) and the rest of the staff might be wearing uniforms that look like they are nurses but they won't be.

A nurse on staff doesn't mean fully funded nursing care though, it means the nursing aspect will be funded by the NHS and the social care aspects will be self funded.

I have to ask though, this is your husband's gran, right? It sounds like she has her own children and grandchildren looking out for her, is your role not more a supportive one rather than a decision making one?

euronorris

Have social services not applied for Deputyship in the last 3 years? It would be worth checking this first before pushing forward with a family member becoming a Deputy for her, because Deputyship Orders do take months, and they are quite costly (compared to Power of Attorney).


It would also give you a stronger standpoint to argue the case as to why they haven't done x, y and z in the last 3 years (namely, selling the property).


NHS Continuing Care (as mentioned above) is not means tested. If she's found eligible, the NHS will pay for all her care fees. If not, they will not pay anything. It's an all or nothing scenario, and is completely separate to local authority funding.


If she requires some nursing care, she should be eligible to Funded Nursing Care (FNC) (formerly Registered Nursing Care Contribution (RNCC)) which is paid at a fixed rate of either £112 per week, or a higher rate of £154.14 per week. This is irrespective of how much it actually costs to have a nurse in doing x, y and z for her.


Lastly, once an individual's assets drop below £23,250, they are eligible to receive funding towards their care from the local authority. Each local authority sets different rates, for different levels of care. So, if the care home does not typically accept the going rate from the council (which is often lower than the average cost of a care home bed), then she will be moved to a care home that does anyway. Between £14,250 and £23,250, she would not receive the full amount of the funding available either. This is why it is possible to be assessed for NHSCC and be found not eligible, but still eligible for local authority funding.


However, the house is what is keeping her from receiving any funding at the moment. It needs to be sold asap. Which is why it's important to establish if the local authority has Deputyship for her yet.


Also, she is most likely to be eligible for Attendance Allowance (£55.10 per week lower rate and £82.30 per week higher rate). Is she receiving this?

Mojisola

missusd wrote: »

His gran had savings of approx. £26,000 when she entered the home, and she was left the house by her husband which we believe to be worth approx. £60,000.

Because her cash level was near the £23,250 point, she should have been assessed for help from the moment she went into care so that it could start as soon as her money reached the trigger point.

The council would have paid their share of the care home costs but put a charge on the house deeds so that the money could be recouped after the house is sold.

Any money that the family has been paying out for the household bills should be paid back to them once the house is sold.

pinkshoes

From citizens advice:

Once the person has lost their mental capacity, it's no longer possible to make a power of attorney – see under heading When does someone lack mental capacity?

It is possible to apply to the Court of Protection for a decision to be made on a particular matter. However, if there is a continuing need to make decisions on the person's behalf, you can ask the Court of Protection to appoint you as a deputy. A deputy was previously known as a receiver.

A deputy is usually a family member or someone who knows the person well. A deputy can make decisions about someone's person’s personal welfare, property and financial affairs.

Have your looked into the above?

Sounds to me that you perhaps need to look at alternative care homes for gran, as this one does not sound suitable.

Person_one

missusd wrote: »

This is where SS have failed big time because they advised that the limit was £6000, and that we would be notified when the limit was reached, which didn't happen. This has been escalated and an official complaint has been lodged against them.

Was that correct three years ago though? The care act of 2014 changed a lot of rules around funding.

missusd

Person_one wrote: »

Was that correct three years ago though? The care act of 2014 changed a lot of rules around funding.

Possibly - this hasn't been mentioned to us before so I will certainly look at this.

Mojisola

Person_one wrote: »

Was that correct three years ago though? The care act of 2014 changed a lot of rules around funding.

Yes. These were the rules when Dad went into care several years ago.

Person_one

missusd wrote: »

Possibly - this hasn't been mentioned to us before so I will certainly look at this.

I'm afraid I'm not an expert on the funding aspects, it is complicated and seems to change every 5 minutes which doesn't help.

Euronorris might be able to help more.

susancs

My MIL had terminal cancer, dementia and arthiritis, but did not qualify for NHS funding despite the tripel diagnosis. On entry to a care home that the social worker found as he was in hospital, she was funded for 6 weeks and then had to pay. Her house had to be sold to pay for her care.

As she had dementia, two family members applied for Guardianship throught the courts and got a sealed court order to sell the house (took about 2 months to get the guardianship sorted out). The family were not happy with the care home she was in for the 6 weeks, so her daughter and her husband (son in law) took out a loan to move her and pay the care home fees but had a solicitor involved, so that they would be re-embursed in full once the house was sold, which they were.

My husband's uncle had dementia and after uncle was hospitalised, hubby was advised to seek guardianship via the courts and find a home for him to go to as he was not capable of living alone any more. The care home accepted that the Guardianship was going through, house being sold (saw the paperwork) and gave Uncle a place knowing they had to wait for the fees. They were actually very good as it took a few months to sell the property and they only got his pensions, care allowance etc towards fees to start with.

We found the Relatives and Resident Association very helpful. The people on their helpline had been through it with their relatives and were a mine of information and very supportive.
http://www.relres.org/