Cold starting problems with 400cc scoot

Cash-Strapped.T32

Hi all, hoping for some advice please.

So I'm running a Tony Blair era, 1999-plate 400cc Suzuki Burgman as my main commuter transport nowadays.
Carb. No fuel injection, no fancy electronics other than an interior light for the boot which is disconnected..


(no, this is not my one, mine is much dirtier! )

And while I love it, the thing can be a nightmare to start if the temp drops to any lower than needing a jumper or a jacket... :mad:

When it's going to be a chilly night, the battery (which is easy to remove as it lives in the dash, where the glove compartment in a car would be) comes inside, and is normally left on a decent charger that maintains it in a topped-up state.

However, this often still doesn't do the trick when it's even moderately cold outside.
I've got an old 12v jump starter pack from years ago that I've taken to keeping in the boot, and if I need to use this to start it, the thing jumps into life first time, on the button, every time.
However, continually jump starting a bike from a pack designed for a car strikes me as *not a good idea*...

So assuming my battery is in good nick (was only replaced a few months ago; 12v10ah, the stock batt is 12v8ah), any ideas?
I'm thinking it's not likely to be the starter motor, since when jumped or when the sun is shining, it fires up beautifully every single time.

Of course I could be wrong - hence me asking if anyone has any better ideas!
Thanks

pappa_golf

hello w fellow scooterist , I own the 500 tmax


arnt they easy to work on (not)


I think your model had an electic choke , do some searching (I,m not home) it is possible that this choke unit has failed or lack of electricity to it




http://burgmanusa.com/forums/14-burgman-400-pre-2007/16349-automatic-choke-not-working-any-ideas.html


google images shows picis of the unit

forgotmyname

Give us a clue as to why it wont start? Wont crank over, cranks over slowly, cranks over faster than normal, or cranks normal?

Does it attempt to fire, a little splutter?

Cash-Strapped.T32

Sorry, should have been more specific!

It turns over just fine, it simply won't fire when it's cold outside (and in this instance, cold doesn't necessarily mean brrr-chilly, just sensible jacket weather).
It'll try to fire, but can't seem to catch - the cranking over seems to be no faster or slower than normal to my inexpert ear... Occasionally a little splutter, but rarely, not every time.

Of course, when I've been stuck in a carpark trying to start it for 5 mins it will crank over more slowly, but that's because the battery by that time is starting to drain...

As I say, if I whack the jump-starter on it, the thing will bounce into life keen as you like, first time every time, but relying on that is not ideal for a number of reasons...

iainscomputer

Hi, in the mid 90's I had a Suzuki GSXR750, the 1st water cooled model. I had problems starting it, I had a spark & it spun over really fast, but just wouldn't start.
I was stuck!
I was given some information that the battery needs to have 13 volts to start it! I jump started it from my car & it ran.
Once I had a new charged up battery, it started ok. But it was a summer toy that I only used in the nice weather.

Cash-Strapped.T32

pappa_golf wrote: »

hello w fellow scooterist , I own the 500 tmax


arnt they easy to work on (not)


I think your model had an electic choke , do some searching (I,m not home) it is possible that this choke unit has failed or lack of electricity to it




http://burgmanusa.com/forums/14-burgman-400-pre-2007/16349-automatic-choke-not-working-any-ideas.html


google images shows picis of the unit

Agreed; I guess mechanically they're not that complicated, but damn, they're a nightmare to take apart! :mad:
I don't think I'll ever get my panels to sit perfectly after I took it apart last time...

As for the choke, I'm pretty confident it's ok, or at least, that it's not dead.
When the bike starts, for the first 3 or 4 minutes the engine revs noticeably higher (high enough for the auto-clutch/cvt to engage, so that if I start it on the centre-stand, the rear wheel will spin).
After a few minutes after the engine has warmed up a little, the revs drop back down to it's regular idle speed...

agrinnall

If it always starts first time when using the starter pack that suggests to me that the battery is not supplying enough juice. Given that the battery is relatively new, of higher capacity than the original, and it sounds like it's well maintained, then perhaps there is something that is causing resistance to the turning process that needs to be investigated. What grade of oil is in it and how fresh is it? Does the manual suggest different grades for different conditions?

Cash-Strapped.T32

Good call - I was wondering if the oil is perhaps too viscous...

This assumption might (I stress "might") be reinforced by the fact that after I've ridden it for a while, and the engine is good & hot, it's easy to start again.
For instance, if I ride a few miles then jump off to fill-up at a petrol station, I never experience the difficult start, and this would tend to indicate the warmer, less viscous oil is making the engine easier to crank over, right?

However, I'm using 10w40, which is the correct rating for the engine, according to the manual...
Might it be worth switching over to a less viscous oil for a week or two as an experiment?

And if so, would this cause issues for long motorway rides? (I normally only use it for a 10mi commute, but I'm doing a nearly 200mi run next weekend down to Kent - god I'm not looking forward to the M25...:p)

agrinnall

Have a read of this thread, which seems to suggest that although 10W40 is the correct grade not all products are the same (although the concerns relate more to transmission slip than starting).

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/43-general-topics/14291-okay-use-synthetic-oil-what-type-should-i-use.html

forgotmyname

Leave the battery standing overnight and then put the lights on without
starting it. After 5 or 10 minutes and with the lights still on check the voltage.

You want the lights to stay on all the time during the test.

Cash-Strapped.T32

forgotmyname wrote: »

Leave the battery standing overnight and then put the lights on without
starting it. After 5 or 10 minutes and with the lights still on check the voltage.

You want the lights to stay on all the time during the test.

Sorry for the late reply to this one - It's been a busy week, including last weekend a >400mi round trip from Derbyshire to Truro on the scoot with the girlfriend on the back, to a little free festival.
(I was expecting the ride to be much more traumatic than it was, particularly the M25 on Friday evening & Sunday afternoon, but given the lovely weather, great visibility, etc.. it was actually quite a relaxing ride).

Anyhow, back to business. The only device I have that can check the voltage is the battery charger (one of those Oximate types, that gives a voltage & ampage reading on a little LCD screen)...

Would that work in this test? And what's the purpose of the test?

Incidentally, with the nicer weather we've been having, I've not had a single dodgy start from the bike in the past weekor so - it seems the colder weather really - really - has a large effect... But as I said, my bike's definition of what constitutes cold is probably different to what most of us would consider real cold...