Advice please re PCN issued in Restricted Parking Zone

SuperLiv

On our recent holiday to Fowey in Cornwall we were issued with a PCN whilst parked up in what was apparently a Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ).

We were driving into Fowey (not knowing this area at all) and following the signs to the Pay & Display car park. Just before we got to the car park we noticed there were about 5 cars parked along the road side. There was a space at the end so we pulled up and had a look around to check if we too could park there. There was no RPZ signage along that stretch of the kerb and no road markings (we have found out since road markings were not needed in this RPZ to keep the roads looking "smart"). We took a look at the other cars parked there to make sure they didn't have permits or PCNs on the windscreens (they did not), so thought that it was fine to park there.

When we returned to our car 4 hours later all the other cars had gone and just our car was left with a PCN on the windscreen. We were obviously very gutted. We think that the cars that had parked there were people who were attending a jumble sale which was being held when we arrived just next to that area - none of them had PCNs or permits to park....

The PCN was issued literally seconds after we'd arrived - we got there at about 11.15am (I remember looking at my watch) and apparently our car had been "observed from 11.14-11.20am" so the warden must have been watching us while we were looking around for signage and at the other cars.

I have made an informal appeal already to Cornwall Council (on the grounds of lack of signage and that other cars being parked there had misled us) but this has been rejected and I only have 2 days left now to pay the PCN at the reduced rate before it goes up to full rate and/or move on to the formal appeal and risk losing and having to pay the full rate.

I'm not holding out much hope right now but would be grateful for your opinons/advice on whether to just pay the fine or to continue with a formal challenge. I feel so strongly that we did our best, within our minimal knowledge of parking legislation, to check that we could park there, and the thought of paying the Council anything for this makes my blood boil!!!!

I've been in email discussions with Cornwall Council since my informal challenge was rejected and they have bombarded me with all this legislation about RPZs and documentation from the Department for Transport giving them permission for no road markings blah blah blah, that most people wouldn't know about. How on earth is your average Joe supposed to know all this...? We were just on holiday trying to play by the rules and have a nice time! We're certainly not car park dodgers - we spent a small fortune on parking fees during our week in Cornwall...

Umkomaas

Paragraphs please!

peter_the_piper

I suggest, that as this is a council ticket, that you toddle on over to pepipoo.com http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&f=30
council tickets. They are better at the council ones, register first. You will be asked for copies of the tickets (both sides) remove number/name/ VRM but leave dates /times.

SuperLiv

Thank you Peter-The-Piper. I shall do that

SuperLiv

Tried registering with this PePiPoo website to access their advice forums. Unfortunately I never got the validation email from them - tried re-sending several times and even tried to contact their administrator - no response (slightly concerned). Running out of time to pay PCN at discounted rate. Cornwall Council even sent me extracts from the DfT Traffic Signs Manual - how patronising - like I'm supposed to have a copy of that on my bookshelf and swat up on traffic signs and road markings (or lack of) before I go anywhere again.

Umkomaas

Have you checked your Junk/Spam email box

SuperLiv

Repeatedly!

Coupon-mad

Running out of time to pay PCN at discounted rate.

No-one who wants to appeal a PCN should even be looking at that. It is one OR the other, all or nothing. Almost every case on pepipoo is won.

Did you make sure you entered the anti-spam 'I am not a robot' question correctly when registering? I know it sounds odd but the only times I have ever heard of people not getting the validation email from pepipoo forum, has been when the newbie realises they've input the test question a digit out or something.

Pepipoo should send a validation email within 24 hours, in my experience and people get cleared to post the same day sometimes. When you get cleared, make sure your first post doesn't bang on about the silly discount bribe (sorry but that's a leap of faith EVERY appellant has to make!) but do include a scan or photo of the PCN, BOTH sides, all small print, or you won't get many views.

I'm not holding out much hope right now

That's exactly what Parking firms and Councils want you to think! They all routinely reject all first appeals - or most - and dangle the carrot of the discount, knowing that people will fold and pay because it's human nature to worry and (perhaps) to believe a legalese chunk of claptrap when spouted confidently enough in a letter.

No-one except parking forums tell you that in fact, most cases are won at formal appeal or adjudication. Pepipoo cases certinly exceed 90% success rate, I have seen this over the years as I post there sometimes.

Come back and tell us when you win!

SuperLiv

Thanks Coupon-mad - I've managed to register successfully now with PePiPoo. I am going to keep challenging so fingers crossed!!!!

SuperLiv

I didn't get any responses from PePiPoo (other than asking me to post up my informal challenge letter and Council's response and someone posting Google Map pictures of the RPZ entrance and exit signs present in Fowey - which we didn't see when we were driving). I honestly feel like giving up and just paying the PCN at the reduced rate. I don't feel like we stand a chance against the "powers that be". I feel so gutted because I truly believe there should have been a RPZ repeater sign on the stretch of kerb where we parked. The nearest repeater signs were one on the other side of the road (we didn't realise this acted for both sides of the road which the Council have since pointed out to us - not what we're used to at all) and the closest repeater sign to us on our side of the road was a bit further up the road in the most ridiculous place (on a corner with a dropped kerb) where one would never think of pulling up and parking anyway!!!! I read that repeater signs should be placed anywhere where motorists could be tempted to pull over and park. There was a signpost on the stretch of kerb where we parked (showing other things) and a repeater sign could easily have been attached to this post instead of on the corner where the kerb was dropped anyway....

Coupon-mad

Post what you've just said above, on pepipoo. Ask if they mean they would pay if in your shoes.

Add more pics if there's any page of the letters you have not yet shown them (small print on the back of the PCN is vital). Give them a Google streetview link, etc. and all pages of every letter and ask if your case is hopeless.

Show us your pepipoo thread by posting a link here.

However, surely you are too late to pay at the discount now, if so then there is NO POINT PAYING. It is a no-brainer to continue the next stages of a Council appeal if the discount is no longer offered because the risk remains all or nothing so you may as well try to achieve the nothing (and it will be good practice).