New house and a heat loss issue

Furts

My response is from a different angle to others. It comes with my builders site helmet on!

I will assume that the home is dry lined, on blockwork, for OP refers to plasterboard. Dry lining is notorious as a way to bodge, and to cover up bad workmanship. Nobody in this day and age should have external walls built in this manner.

It appears a continuous bead of adhesive has not been used to bond the boards around the edges, and this is a vital requirement. It is particularly vital at the base because the void created by not doing so acts as a chimney.

However if the home is timber framed the results suggest no insulation between the studs. This concept is also visible with the photo of the ceiling - that is missing insulation.

Equally further investigation is required because the photos suggest cold bridging at the floor edges. This is possible if the workmanship and/or detailing have been sloppy.

Add to this the windows and patio door may not have received an effective sealant to both the inner and outer edges of the frames at top, bottom and sides.

The bottom line is this suggests there has been a failure to meet NHBC Technical Standards and a failure by the Site Management to exert effective control over the work - nothing new there then!

Smiley_Dan

Welcome to the UK, home of poorly performing houses since 1970 (see Furts' post).

First of all, ignore the EPC, it's !!!!!!!!. If this is a new developer house they don't even need to prove insulation has been installed. Matey 1 from the building company sends a list of things they say they will install to Matey 2 at the assessment company who give them a SAP without getting out from behind his desk.

The thermal images are damning. Looks like dot and dab by the way the spots appear on the wall. What are the internal air temperatures here? You should have no more than a difference of about 2C.

119kWh/m2 might be "normal" but it's crap. It's why you have to be extremely careful buying a new house in the UK.

We shouldn't have to be "frugal" to be warm - builders should just build houses properly.

Furts

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

Welcome to the UK, home of poorly performing houses since 1970 (see Furts' post).

First of all, ignore the EPC, it's !!!!!!!!. If this is a new developer house they don't even need to prove insulation has been installed. Matey 1 from the building company sends a list of things they say they will install to Matey 2 at the assessment company who give them a SAP without getting out from behind his desk.

The thermal images are damning. Looks like dot and dab by the way the spots appear on the wall. What are the internal air temperatures here? You should have no more than a difference of about 2C.

119kWh/m2 might be "normal" but it's crap. It's why you have to be extremely careful buying a new house in the UK.

We shouldn't have to be "frugal" to be warm - builders should just build houses properly.

I second this and add to the 119 figure. My home is large and not built to current regulations. It is extensions built on a 30 year old shell, it is exposed, and a terrible design for energy efficiency. That said my total energy consumption, that is heating, lighting, cooking, hot water, computer and appliances comes out at under 50kW/m2 per year.

I did do a check once and came up with a figure of 35 but with each year we seem to like the house that little bit warmer!

Put in financial terms this is a three storey house with a total gas and electric bill of about £500 per year. Around £200 of that is standing charges with the remaining £300 or so being energy consumed.

HappyMJ

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

Welcome to the UK, home of poorly performing houses since 1970 (see Furts' post).

First of all, ignore the EPC, it's !!!!!!!!. If this is a new developer house they don't even need to prove insulation has been installed. Matey 1 from the building company sends a list of things they say they will install to Matey 2 at the assessment company who give them a SAP without getting out from behind his desk.

The thermal images are damning. Looks like dot and dab by the way the spots appear on the wall. What are the internal air temperatures here? You should have no more than a difference of about 2C.

119kWh/m2 might be "normal" but it's crap. It's why you have to be extremely careful buying a new house in the UK.

We shouldn't have to be "frugal" to be warm - builders should just build houses properly.

119kWh/m2 is crap? What should it be? I have just received the winter bill which was £163 for the last 3 months to 21st April and I've just adjusted my direct debit down to £41 per month and even then I am £180 in credit after winter having now lived here for 11 months. I've paid in total £588 in 11 payments. I thought that was very good. I'm not even attempting to be frugal. The thermostat is set at around 16 (night) and 20 (day) most of the year and the bedrooms are a steady 16 degrees all day from that setting but I'm sure that's not being frugal. The heating is even on 24 hours a day. If I was trying to be frugal I'd turn it off most of the time. The usage on the bill states that over 11 months I've used 5,940kWh. It's a 58sqm property so over 12 months the actual usage is 112kWh/m2/year. Very close to the estimate but it was a bit warmer than a normal winter.

stator

Essentially the only thing you can do is to actually start taking things apart to check whether they are sealed or built correctly. Once you have your evidence then you can go back to the builder or start making complaints.

Smiley_Dan

I would aim for something like 40kWh/m²/year which is AECB silver standard, if you were fixing a house that has been built to this standard.

But if you were building new there's no reason to not to build to passivhaus levels, so about 15 kWh/m²/year.

Lower case 'p' used on purpose.

Cisco001

I notice you using blind in the house.
I suggest you consider getting some thick curtain to reduce heat lost...

infer

Hello everybody,

I'm pretty impressed about all the comments, let me add/clarify few things.

Cisco001 wrote: »

I notice you using blind in the house.
I suggest you consider getting some thick curtain to reduce heat lost...

Windows are not the issue, you can see a black/purple parts of the walls on thermal imaging, believe me - they are colder than windows. It's hard to believe but a heat loss also exist during a day, all you need is less than 9deg outside

Furts wrote: »

My response is from a different angle to others. It comes with my builders site helmet on!

I will assume that the home is dry lined, on blockwork, for OP refers to plasterboard. Dry lining is notorious as a way to bodge, and to cover up bad workmanship. Nobody in this day and age should have external walls built in this manner.

It appears a continuous bead of adhesive has not been used to bond the boards around the edges, and this is a vital requirement. It is particularly vital at the base because the void created by not doing so acts as a chimney.

Equally further investigation is required because the photos suggest cold bridging at the floor edges. This is possible if the workmanship and/or detailing have been sloppy.

Add to this the windows and patio door may not have received an effective sealant to both the inner and outer edges of the frames at top, bottom and sides.

The bottom line is this suggests there has been a failure to meet NHBC Technical Standards and a failure by the Site Management to exert effective control over the work - nothing new there then!

Thanks for a technical approach.
House is of course dry lined (dot and dab?) but I've knocked all the walls and it looks like there is an adhesive around all the edges, sockets etc.

If we are talking about a NHBC- should I get them involved ? The problem is that builders said they thermal survey looks ok and all the cold edges, thermal bridges etc are normal and within the legal limit (whatever that means)

I was visiting site every week so I have a lots of pictures from every stage, for sure there is an insulation in every place where should be. I spent few hours to check picture by picture


House is a 3 storey, 4 bed , around 130m2. We are trying to hit 20,0deg during a day and 18.5deg at night. Both upper floors are absolutely fine, i.e at the moment on the 1st floor it's 22.4 , 2nd is 21.2 while in the living room its 18.4.

You can't feel any draught but while sitting on the sofa you can feel that this "cold" is surrounding you.
Boiler and rads are working fine, they are getting hot quickly but heat disappears quite fast (looks like a living room is affected the most)

As I was pushing head office quite hard they decided to have a look on a roof insulation over the extension in the lounge. 3 lads came today, removed 2 rows of tiles and said , that insulation is fine.

Nobody gives a f... about a thermal survey.

I'm not fully aware of a UK's standard but its something strange to have a such a cold corner and wall ( 12deg is pretty low).

In term of gas usage. We were renting a brand new house (3 storey , very similar size and a type) build by a different builder and it was a way warmer, we were easily having 21 deg downstairs are paid slightly over 880 pounds for a gas per year. At the new house it's very hard to go below 100/month , not even saying that we are having max 19-19.5 in the lounge.

suki1964

20.0c ?

That's sunbathing weather for here


Sorry no help, just couldn't resist

DRP

suki1964 wrote: »

20.0c ?

That's sunbathing weather for here


Sorry no help, just couldn't resist

20deg isnt too mad in the day, but 18.5 overnight!? crazy hot

Get a higher tog duvet!