Nationalisation

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Why do people seem to want to nationalise or subsidise Tata Steel but not Austin Reed or BHS?
...

I think the government feels guilty about the regions, particularly Wales.

The steel industry, like the coal industry before it, is synonymous with sspecific communities. People may rightly point to the lack of real recovery in pit towns as how things can do downhill.

BHS and Austin Reed don't create the same sort of emotional response. People would probably be more upset at the loss of Amazon.

kabayiri

antrobus wrote: »

Given the comparative performace of the French and UK economies in recent years, I hardly think that France is setting an example that we should follow.

It would be hard to narrow down the differential to protectionism. How big a part has the Euro played, as one example?

michaels

antrobus wrote: »

That one.

Tata closes the Redcar plant. Labour government takes no specific action. Liberal Democrats win Redcar on a big swing.

There appears to be a tendency in geographically remote parts of the country for the closure of a major industry to lead to a long term period of dependency - the Welsh Valley mining villages and the seaside resorts are costing us all a fortune in transfer payments and show no sign of either depopulating (as would happen in the US with smaller transfer payments) nor reviving (again benefits exceed what can be earned).

Sure in classical economic theory where the market will soon reallocate resources including labour it makes sense to close down uneconomic industries but where the market is then further distorted (in this case by social security payments) the overall economic consequences of providing a subsidy to keep a dying industry alive are less clear cut.

Tromking

antrobus wrote: »

Given the comparative performace of the French and UK economies in recent years, I hardly think that France is setting an example that we should follow.

Oh I don`t know, as Generali will tell you Australia dolled out a big fat £67 billion defence contract to France yesterday. Perhaps a diverse manufacturing base backed by a Government willing to engage in mild protectionism is a healthy thing.

westernpromise

I'd go further. Clearly we should save Tata Steel because a country that doesn't make things any more isn't a proper country. We should get back into manufacturing which all developed countries are stupidly exiting, and we should have the workforce unionised so they can strive collaboratively towards a common goal as they did in the 70s. We should focus on making the kind of things we made so successfully in the past, and for which the world is clamouring: coal-fired dreadnoughts, Spitfires, and the Austin Allegro.

It's the future.

Conrad

antrobus wrote: »

Given the comparative performace of the French and UK economies in recent years, I hardly think that France is setting an example that we should follow.

Just because France is having difficulties, does not mean everything they do is wrong


They dominate in electricity generation thanks to long term vision and a proper industrial policy, for example


I'm a right wing capitalist, but have lately come round to the idea Govt has a profound role to play. Look at the history of the US military / industrial complex as an example - the spin-offs pretty much built modern America, everything from semi conductors to Satellite tech


As such I think right now there is a role for Govt intervention into steel making for the long term good


THIS ONE GREAT BBC DOCUMENTARY SAYS IT ALL - how Britain ruled the skies thanks to a Govt / industrial partnership;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvU7nQUethw

kabayiri

westernpromise wrote: »

...
and the Austin Allegro.

It's the future.

The one with the square steering wheel?

It certainly is the future

I'm just disappointed the printers tried to correct the name when the brochures were being produced :

"They don't really want to call it the 'All Agro' surely?"

"Must be a mistake Bill. Switch the middle A to an E..."

silvercar

kabayiri wrote: »

I think the government feels guilty about the regions, particularly Wales.

The steel industry, like the coal industry before it, is synonymous with sspecific communities. People may rightly point to the lack of real recovery in pit towns as how things can do downhill.

BHS and Austin Reed don't create the same sort of emotional response. People would probably be more upset at the loss of Amazon.

Could be an option, big Amazon distribution centre in Swansea. Could pay them to take on redundant steel workers.

michaels

silvercar wrote: »

Could be an option, big Amazon distribution centre in Swansea. Could pay them to take on redundant steel workers.

But what is Swansea the centre of? There is a reason they like to have distribution centres in places like Northampton....

westernpromise

kabayiri wrote: »

The one with the square steering wheel?

It certainly is the future

I'm just disappointed the printers tried to correct the name when the brochures were being produced :

"They don't really want to call it the 'All Agro' surely?"

"Must be a mistake Bill. Switch the middle A to an E..."

Snigger.

Likewise the legendary Triumph Snag.