Questions to forward to employer and ask at appeal hearing

Button12

Good Morning,

My mother has been made redundant at work due to her long term sickness. (albeit back at work without any time off for 4 months before the final proceedings took place)
We have spoken to an Employment Solicitor who has advised that she should be protected under the Equaility Act as she suffers with PTSD.
The Solicitor advised that we would be able to find a list of questions online to forward to her employer regarding the nature of her redundancy/weather reasonable adjustments had been made and if other employees with the same conditions have been treadted the same, ect. Looking around, Im unable to find the list that we could forward and wondered if anyone could advise what to ask/forward on to the employer.
She has her appeal hearing coming up and in the most recent dossier we have recieved, they are refusing to acknowledge the ongoing PTSD as she had not been signed off with that specific reason. Although occ health had sent her for councelling prior to this bout ofsickness for PTSD.
Would there be any questions to ask in the appeal hearing relating to this?
We also have a letter from her Dr confirming the PTSD and that it is an ongoing issue.

Thanks for any advice in advance, its hard knowing what to do when we've never been in this position before.

Takeaway_Addict

Ursula12 wrote: »

Good Morning,

My mother has been made redundant at work due to her long term sickness. (albeit back at work without any time off for 4 months before the final proceedings took place)
We have spoken to an Employment Solicitor who has advised that she should be protected under the Equaility Act as she suffers with PTSD.
The Solicitor advised that we would be able to find a list of questions online to forward to her employer regarding the nature of her redundancy/weather reasonable adjustments had been made and if other employees with the same conditions have been treadted the same, ect. Looking around, Im unable to find the list that we could forward and wondered if anyone could advise what to ask/forward on to the employer.
She has her appeal hearing coming up and in the most recent dossier we have recieved, they are refusing to acknowledge the ongoing PTSD as she had not been signed off with that specific reason. Although occ health had sent her for councelling prior to this bout ofsickness for PTSD.
Would there be any questions to ask in the appeal hearing relating to this?
We also have a letter from her Dr confirming the PTSD and that it is an ongoing issue.

Thanks for any advice in advance, its hard knowing what to do when we've never been in this position before.

She won't have been made redundant due to sickness, she was either dismissed on capability procedures or the role has been deleted which is the redundancy.

You need to clarify what has actually happened.

Also, how long has she worked there for?

Button12

Ohh. She must of been dismissed as the post is still there but her work itself was never questioned. She was however paid for 6 weeks.
She had been in thier employment for 7 years.

sangie595

I am slightly bemused and more than a little perturbed by a solicitor who tells you to look on line for something to do with your case!

I am afraid that your solicitor is either an idiot or you have been confused by their advice - given they told you to look on line for something they should have advised on, then I am going with the former. Protection under the Equality Act is extremely limited, and in no circumstances does it prevent someone from being dismissed due to capability or sickness absence. And it certainly doesn't offer protection against anything at all if the reason someone is off sick is not the disability. If she wasn't signed off for PTSD then that is either because the cause of her recent sickness is not related to it, or her GP has erred - the employer is acting on what they have been told by the GP, and they are correct to do so. They can't just make up another reason if the reason they are given is stated as something else. And ongoing PTSD only confirms that she suffers from the condition, not that the employer has to put all her sickness down to it.

In the end, employers pay employees to be at work, and frequent sickness or long term sickness will almost always result in dismissal, even for people with disabilities.

There really isn't such a thing as a standard list of questions to ask, because it is down the circumstances that are individual in every case, but I also think that you have misunderstood the purpose of the appeal. It is not for you to ask questions of the employer. You should have done that previously. It is for you to present a reason why the original decision should not stand. If you have not already done so, you need to get hold of the appeal procedure. Some employers limit the grounds of appeal, for example, only allowing new information to be raised. So you need to check whether there are limitations on the appeal grounds.

Broadly speaking, grounds of appeal in similar cases would be whether any reasonable adjustments were made or could have been made - it is not always possible for employers to make adjustments. It would be best if you could show evidence that reasonable adjustments had been asked for - if they were not asked for, it really is a bit late to be asking for them now, as the employer can reasonably say that they were not aware that any could be offered, and none were asked for. They could also point to the counselling as a reasonable adjustment - this is not a standard thing for all employees, and they didn't need to arrange for it.

It would be helpful, in terms of being able to give more specific advice, to know what kind of employer we are talking about (private company, local authority etc); how much time she has had off sick and what for (broadly - PTSD or not PTSD); whether any reasonable adjustments were asked for and if they were, what the employers response was; and why you / she thinks that she shouldn't lose her job - after all, employers do dismiss people for too much sickness, it is fair in law for them to do so, so what makes you different in your opinion? And please don't just say it's because she has a disability, because that won't wash - I need to hear why you think she should have another chance, when, from the employers point of view, she is "dead wood". And please don't take offense at that - employers don't operate on sentiment, and they don't keep people in work because they feel sorry for them. So this is what the employer thinks, whether they say so or not. So put yourself in that mind frame and tell me why you think the employer should change their mind.

I'd also need to know what procedure they have followed to get to dismissal.

BTW, I am guessing, but I am assuming that this may be public sector employment (four months is about the right length of time for a dismissal/appeal to take).

And one final question (another one you won't like, but it's one the employer will be thinking about) - it would appear on the face of it that she only went back to work and hasn't had any further time off sick because she was already facing dismissal. Is that true? And if so, are you sure that going back to work is actually the best thing for her, because if working is causing her health problems, she may be best taking some time out, and not putting herself back in a situation where her sickness rates are going to occur again - or she ends up in work and sick and does her mental health damage as a result.

makemesumdosh

WHY, WHY WHY,

time and time again I read posts on here and no one is in a trade union.
for the price of a Starbucks coffee or a pint a week you get some protection from a union.

Workplace reps, health and safety reps, legal advice, most offer free wills, various discounts on insurance, affliate schemes all for around £15 a month

Button12

She is with the Union. They dont seem to be much help in her case.

Button12

Thank you for your helpful response.
Im going to take some time to think about what you've said as you've made some very vaild points and its quite hard not to be biased when initally responding.

makemesumdosh

if your rep is not doing the job then speak to the regional officer. have you got copies of all relevant policies from your H.R. Department.
have they followed procedures, if not take a grievance against them.
these are all things a rep should of done.

sangie595

Ursula12 wrote: »

She is with the Union. They dont seem to be much help in her case.

Unfortunately, there is a limit to what a union can do in these circumstances. People often blame the union for not doing anything, but it isn't that they don't do anything - it is that they don't have a valid legal argument to prevent it. Dismissal for sickness absence is fair in law. They can't change that.

And consulting a solicitor means you no longer have union support - you cannot have two representatives, and if you consult a solicitor outside the union, then the union will withdraw.

Ursula12 wrote: »

Thank you for your helpful response.
Im going to take some time to think about what you've said as you've made some very vaild points and its quite hard not to be biased when initally responding.

That's a pretty good response. Of course you can't really be unbiased - it's your mum! I would be more worried if you could be unbiased. But in this situation the best help you can be to her is to try to be. I've seen a lot of people in the same situation as your mum, and individually, most of the cases are sad. But winning the case isn't always the best thing I can do for people - some have gone on to resign because they need that time out. Others have been dismissed and gone on to say it was the best thing that could have happened. Not all, but enough. There isn't a best answer in these sorts of situations.