Courier forged recipient's signature

mssloan

Hi,

I recently sold an expensive item on eBay. I took it to the Post Office and paid for Parcelforce delivery, with an extra premium for cover the cost of the item. Tracking now shows the parcel delivered, with a signature.

However I have been contacted by the buyer, thanking me for the parcel but added he was surprised the parcel was dumped on his doorstep while he was at work.

I send him a copy of the signature from the tracking and he tells me it's not his.

Although, fortunately, the parcel wasn't stolen, it might have been and this could have exposed me to a substantial loss (buyer claiming non-delivery and a refund), so I am extremely unhappy about it. :mad:

:question: What are my rights in a case like this?
:question: Has the courier (the actaul person who made the delivery) broken the law?
:question: Can/Should I can the Police involved?

mssloan

soolin

mssloan wrote: »

Hi,

I recently sold an expensive item on eBay. I took it to the Post Office and paid for Parcelforce delivery, with an extra premium for cover the cost of the item. Tracking now shows the parcel delivered, with a signature.

However I have been contacted by the buyer, thanking me for the parcel but added he was surprised the parcel was dumped on his doorstep while he was at work.

I send him a copy of the signature from the tracking and he tells me it's not his.

Although, fortunately, the parcel wasn't stolen, it might have been and this could have exposed me to a substantial loss (buyer claiming non-delivery and a refund), so I am extremely unhappy about it. :mad:

:question: What are my rights in a case like this?
:question: Has the courier (the actaul person who made the delivery) broken the law?
:question: Can/Should I can the Police involved?

mssloan

I'm not sure what your question is, what 'rights' are you asking about?

A signature is just that, there is no requirement to actually get the addressee to sign for an item , however neither should a courier be signing for it and it is perhaps worth reporting that to Parcelforce.

For PayPal purposes a signature is not even required up to a certain cost (I believe it is currently £150 but I'm sure the regulars will correct me) so assuming the item was less than that you would have won an INR claim. If it was more than that then again you would almost certainly have won a PayPal claim as there is no requirement at all for the owner of the eBay account to sign for the parcel- and also, how would eBay know- have you supplied a legally certified copy of your signature to eBay in case you buy expensive things?

Some couriers are more likely to do this dump and run, Parcelforce isn't usually one of the complained about ones so it might be worth contacting Parcelforce and explaining your concerns.

theonlywayisup

It might have been stolen. It wasn't.

The buyer has his item. You weren't exposed to anything.

What is the problem?

As above. But to add, a signature isn't need unless the value is £750.

mssloan

This item was worth over £1000 and I paid an extra £51 to cover its value.

I didn't pay all that money to have the courier dump the parcel. The fact the parcel wasn't stolen is not the issue. The problem is I didn't get the service I paid for.

paulc333

mssloan wrote: »

Hi,



:question: What are my rights in a case like this?
:question: Has the courier (the actaul person who made the delivery) broken the law?
:question: Can/Should I can the Police involved?

mssloan

my opinion.

I doubt any law has been broken, certainly not one worth involving the police, you might be able to stretch to breach of contract but it would not be worth the fight.

Assuming it's the courier thats signed they may well have breached company rules, so your course of action is to report your concerns to parcelforce, pointing out that you paid for a service which you have doubts was achieved as the addressee doubts that anyone at that address signed for the parcel.

I'd contact parcelforce and ask them to investigate, don't accuse but state the facts and see what happens, you might get some compensation or your upgraded costs back I guess, don't expect masses as your parcel got to it's intended recipient.

theonlywayisup

mssloan wrote: »

This item was worth over £1000 and I paid an extra £51 to cover its value.

I didn't pay all that money to have the courier dump the parcel. The fact the parcel wasn't stolen is not the issue. The problem is I didn't get the service I paid for.

Does the buyer have the item?

esuhl

If the parcel had been stolen, the courier would be liable unless they had instructions from the addressee to leave it somewhere. So I wouldn't worry about it.

retiredlady

This has happened to me (sort of). I ordered a pair of trainers, when they didn't come I contacted the seller who had a signature showing tracked delivery. It wasn't my signature and I hadn't received the goods. I put in a PayPal claim and lost as the seller had a signature. So as a seller you might be ok, but as the customer I lost my money. They were expensive too��

RHemmings

theonlywayisup wrote: »

It might have been stolen. It wasn't.

The buyer has his item. You weren't exposed to anything.

What is the problem?

As above. But to add, a signature isn't need unless the value is £750.

The problem is not a specific problem for this individual seller for this individual package sent to this individual customer.

The problem is: if this can happen, then other packages dumped in the same way may go missing. I.e. this is a general, not a specific problem. And I think it's well worth discussing.

It is true that the sender would have won an INR case in this situation. But, if I was a buyer and an expensive item had not been received and the signature had been faked, then I would be looking into either a card chargeback, or suing the seller in the small claims court. Ebay arbitration is not a final court with no appeal.

I note that in cases where complaints are made to the Financial Ombudsman concerning charges to an account or card that 'examples of the customer's signature' are taken into account. http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/disputed-transactions.htm If delivery is evidenced by a fake signature, then this may be considered if the FO is involved in making a decision.

Personally this sort of event, non-delivery but with a fake signature so that I might lose an INR case is a concern for me, and it makes me less likely to buy expensive items on ebay unless I can do cash on collection.

prowla

The OP bought a service, which included a proof of delivery, and which was not honoured.

The courier forging a signature and leaving something on the doorstep is neither delivery nor proof of delivery.

Parcelforce's site (http://www.parcelforce.com/send-a-parcel) states:

You can trust us to deliver your parcels and your promises at home and abroad taking the same care that you would yourself.

Would the OP have just left it on the doorstep?

They also state (http://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/receiving/signature-requirement-delivery):

All of our UK services require a signature upon delivery. This means that it is not possible to leave an item without receiving one. If the item has been delivered then a signature should be visible as proof of delivery on your track & trace results.

Now, in fairness to them, they don't say it has to be the addressee's signature, but I would suggest that the company "receiving" a signature does not include the option of them doing it themselves.

The courier company did not fulfil their contract.

campdave

mssloan wrote: »

Hi,

I recently sold an expensive item on eBay. I took it to the Post Office and paid for Parcelforce delivery, with an extra premium for cover the cost of the item. Tracking now shows the parcel delivered, with a signature.

However I have been contacted by the buyer, thanking me for the parcel but added he was surprised the parcel was dumped on his doorstep while he was at work.

I send him a copy of the signature from the tracking and he tells me it's not his.

Although, fortunately, the parcel wasn't stolen, it might have been and this could have exposed me to a substantial loss (buyer claiming non-delivery and a refund), so I am extremely unhappy about it. :mad:

:question: What are my rights in a case like this?
:question: Has the courier (the actaul person who made the delivery) broken the law?
:question: Can/Should I can the Police involved?

mssloan

What did parcel force say about it when you contacted them?

Police? Don't you think they have better things to do?