Fascias and soffits

Chris0979

Hi all

I'm having my fascias, soffits and gutters replaced by a company (Squaredeal)
After they removed the front fascias they found a beam at the front that was rotten, the fitters called me to say they found it. They said they suspected it as part of my soffit board is almost 2 inches lower due to water ingress. Although the surveyor didn't pick this up.
On my quotation they have a possible extras section, they have included 1 possible extra which is re-cementing the gable ends at £20+VAT per metre. I have included the 2 relevant sections of their terms and conditions. I am saying I shouldn't have to pay to have the beam replaced, they haven't even given me a price to do the work. Their surveyor said it was something they wouldn't do yet their manager and co director have both said it is an additional payment. Should I have to pay for this or not?

2. BARGEBOARDS

As with the Fasciaboards, only by removing the existing bargeboards can any rot in the gable beam be exposed. For similar reasons, it is ill advised to cover the existing bargeboards.

If, after removal of the bargeboards, the gable rafter is in good condition, it will be treated with an industrial rot-proofing preservative, if required, and the new uPVC Soffit and Bargeboards, as appropriate, will be fitted.

The bargeboard is not load bearing, and can be fitted directly to the gable beam, using marine grade stainless steel, plastic headed pins into the cross grain of the gable timber. The character of the bargeboards end box will be maintained or enhanced at all times.

Should the gable beam be rotten, this could mainly be due to cracking in the cemented verge. Where cracks appear, and even worse, where the cement falls out, this allows rainwater to reach the upper side of the gable beam and rot results.
The method of cementing verges, the materials used and the state of repair vary considerably. If the rot in the gable beam is confined below the wall plate, then this can be replaced with new treated timber, free of charge.

If the rot is above this point, then it is highly probable, and desirable, that the whole gable beam has to be removed and replaced with new, treated, timber. An extra cost may be incurred, which will be listed separately on your quotation. (see possible Extras)

6. POSSIBLE EXTRAS

On all quotations we have an area marked “possible extras”. This allows for any unforeseen work, i.e. re-cementing gable tiles or replacing rotten gable beams, whilst at the same time making the customer aware of extra costs before commencement of the installation. Although we are very aware that nobody enjoys paying for extras, we feel it is not fair to include these in the original quotation because in a lot of cases they are not required.

The only three extra costs ever needed involve re-cementing gable verge tiles, replacing rotten gable beams or Licensed Asbestos Removal (see Asbestos sheet). We list these separately because it is not possible to view the condition of the gable beam until the existing timber has been removed; and when removing the timber bargeboards, although every care is taken not to disturb the cementing, in some cases it cannot be avoided. At Squaredeal, we believe in doing the job thoroughly and will therefore re-cement the tiles, as explained in our specification, and not “face up” any damaged cement, which is not only bad building practice, but dangerous as well.

Should rotten beams be found, it is very important these are replaced and not just covered up to avoid this extra work, as failure to do this can cause ingress of rot into other areas of the roof structure.

Should the need for any of this work become apparent, we will immediately inform you of any costs involved before any work is commenced.

Please note, however, that the above is the worst case scenario, and in the majority of installations is not required at all. Should your quotation state “no extras”, then no additional charge will be made to the stated contract amount.

wealdroam

The last sentence in your quote from their terms is interesting.
Does your quotation state "no extras"?

antrobus

Chris0979 wrote: »

..... I am saying I shouldn't have to pay to have the beam replaced, they haven't even given me a price to do the work....

Of course you don't have to pay for it.

I have no doubt that Squaredeal will happily fix the new front fascias over your existing rotten beam in accordance with your contract, if you really insist. Of course, that does mean that there is a risk that at some point in the future part of your house may well fall down. But that's no biggie.

bris

I am not even sure what it is you are actually asking here, the possible extras covers it pretty well if you ask me.


So the question to you is, do you want them to just put up the fascias on the rotten beam or do you want them to fix it for free first?

ukwmo

Tbh the terms and conditions quoted are pretty good, comprehensive, obviously written up by someone who has long experience in roofline issues.

The surveyor should really have pointed out the shift in the soffit board during his inspection, just to give you a heads up. The movement is an indication of water penetration. And with that, unfortunately, comes rot to the beam. You might have seen water coming down through the soffit during heavy rain yourself.

But no-one, not even the surveyor, knows the extent of the rot until the old soffit boards are removed. If it's only one beam, you're pretty lucky. Old rooflines can hide a multitude of horrors. The quotation should give you an indication about the cost of replacing the damaged beam, it might not be too expensive tbh, does it mention a precise amount ?

Either way, you'll need to get it fixed. Because honestly there's no point in putting new soffit boards back up if there's rotten wood up there.

Good luck with the new roofline, hope it lasts you a long time.

Ectophile

If it was a typical house-buyer's survey, then it will only have picked up things that were visible to the surveyor. Surveyors don't have X-ray vision, so they can't spot rotten things hidden by other things.

I'm sure if you insist that the fascias company will screw their nice new fascias to a rotten board. It might even last a few years before the whole lot falls off.

Otherwise, it's an unforeseeable extra, that you have to pay for.

If that's all that's wrong, think yourself lucky. When I bought my house, the surveyor told me I needed new fascias at the side and back of the house - the front was already done in PVC.

So I was quoted for scaffolding on 2 sides of the house, 2 runs of fascias, and new guttering.

It turned out that the boards behind the fascias were rotten. Including the ones behind the PVC at the front. So the bill's now gone up to scaffolding on 3 sides of the house, repairing the boards on 3 sides, 3 runs of fascias and new guttering.

The builder turns up to repair the boards, and notices that the bars that hold the tiles on the roof are looking a bit rotten in places. Roofer turns up and explains that the original builders have skimped on tiles - they aren't overlapped enough and are letting in water. And they skimped on roofing felt as well.

In the end, the work came to: scaffolding on 3 sides of the house, repair the boards on 3 sides, strip and re-lay the entire roof, with new membrane, new bars and an extra palette and a half of reclaimed tiles, fascias on 3 sides, and new guttering.

And, no, the fascias company didn't pay for all that, even though it wasn't in their original quote.

Chris0979

wealdroam wrote: »

The last sentence in your quote from their terms is interesting.
Does your quotation state "no extras"?

My quote states only 1 possible extra which is re-cementing gable ends.

Chris0979

antrobus wrote: »

Of course you don't have to pay for it.

I have no doubt that Squaredeal will happily fix the new front fascias over your existing rotten beam in accordance with your contract, if you really insist. Of course, that does mean that there is a risk that at some point in the future part of your house may well fall down. But that's no biggie.

Thank you for your response, almost as sarcastic as me but I was after help and advice.

Chris0979

bris wrote: »

I am not even sure what it is you are actually asking here, the possible extras covers it pretty well if you ask me.


So the question to you is, do you want them to just put up the fascias on the rotten beam or do you want them to fix it for free first?

I would like them to fix it as per their terms and conditions, as they hadn't listed it as a possible extra.

Chris0979

ukwmo wrote: »

Tbh the terms and conditions quoted are pretty good, comprehensive, obviously written up by someone who has long experience in roofline issues.

The surveyor should really have pointed out the shift in the soffit board during his inspection, just to give you a heads up. The movement is an indication of water penetration. And with that, unfortunately, comes rot to the beam. You might have seen water coming down through the soffit during heavy rain yourself.

But no-one, not even the surveyor, knows the extent of the rot until the old soffit boards are removed. If it's only one beam, you're pretty lucky. Old rooflines can hide a multitude of horrors. The quotation should give you an indication about the cost of replacing the damaged beam, it might not be too expensive tbh, does it mention a precise amount ?

Either way, you'll need to get it fixed. Because honestly there's no point in putting new soffit boards back up if there's rotten wood up there.

Good luck with the new roofline, hope it lasts you a long time.

Thank you, only 1 possible extra was listed and that was for re-cementing the gable ends.
They have quoted me £450 + VAT to replace it. The timber is £30...

Chris0979

Ectophile wrote: »

If it was a typical house-buyer's survey, then it will only have picked up things that were visible to the surveyor. Surveyors don't have X-ray vision, so they can't spot rotten things hidden by other things.

I'm sure if you insist that the fascias company will screw their nice new fascias to a rotten board. It might even last a few years before the whole lot falls off.

Otherwise, it's an unforeseeable extra, that you have to pay for.

If that's all that's wrong, think yourself lucky. When I bought my house, the surveyor told me I needed new fascias at the side and back of the house - the front was already done in PVC.

So I was quoted for scaffolding on 2 sides of the house, 2 runs of fascias, and new guttering.

It turned out that the boards behind the fascias were rotten. Including the ones behind the PVC at the front. So the bill's now gone up to scaffolding on 3 sides of the house, repairing the boards on 3 sides, 3 runs of fascias and new guttering.

The builder turns up to repair the boards, and notices that the bars that hold the tiles on the roof are looking a bit rotten in places. Roofer turns up and explains that the original builders have skimped on tiles - they aren't overlapped enough and are letting in water. And they skimped on roofing felt as well.

In the end, the work came to: scaffolding on 3 sides of the house, repair the boards on 3 sides, strip and re-lay the entire roof, with new membrane, new bars and an extra palette and a half of reclaimed tiles, fascias on 3 sides, and new guttering.

And, no, the fascias company didn't pay for all that, even though it wasn't in their original quote.

Not sure why you have said about the house buyers survey.
The surveyor that I am talking about is the surveyor for the fascias company, the person that is meant to highlight any and all possible extras and to plan the job.
The fascias company wouldn't pay for the roof but any woodwork associated with the fascias should be covered.