Booking train for a station thats before you get on

veryintrigued

So Virgin East Coast release tickets in two swathes for journeys in and out of Kings Cross. i.e. ones York and Northwards are released months before those South of York.

Has anyone had need to book (say from York) even though they know they wont get on until further South and is it actually allowed?

Possibly so they know they can get a seat or a cycle space etc especially if they know they will be away when the tickets are released from their 'proper' station?

Cheers in advance

dzug1

With an advance ticket you must travel the exact journey booked - you cannot start late or finish short


Needless to say as with anything in life it may be that some of the time (and I stress some) you can get away with breaking the rules.

Hutchch0920

Question to consider: are there ticket barriers or likely inspections before boarding?

discat11

Basically it all depends on whether the use of the ticket could be regarded as avoiding any part of the fare.

i.e. if the fare from b-c is more than the fare from a-c (even if via b) then it's a deliberate avoidance, which is an offence.

This is because some branch lines have such an infrequent service they are allowed to use off peak tickets to join specific services a-c where passengers joining at b (on the main line) are paying a higher fare for a shorter journey.

IF there is no fare being avoided then there shouldn't be any issue, although as drug has correctly pointed out advance fares need to be used as per their own conditions, failure to do this will render them null & void and the full open fare (single) becomes payable.

davemorton

Im not sure the other posters understand what you mean....either that or I dont understand.
Do you mean you would buy say a ticket from York to Durham now, then when the later ones are released, buy a tickey from say Kings Cross to York.
In total you are wanting to get from Kings Cross to Durham, but buying your tickets in 2 parts. If this is so, nothing wrong with that at all.

yorkie2

veryintrigued wrote: »

So Virgin East Coast release tickets in two swathes for journeys in and out of Kings Cross. i.e. ones York and Northwards are released months before those South of York.

Has anyone had need to book (say from York) even though they know they wont get on until further South and is it actually allowed?

Possibly so they know they can get a seat or a cycle space etc especially if they know they will be away when the tickets are released from their 'proper' station?

Cheers in advance

What journey are you looking at exactly? Feel free to anonymise the date for obvious reasons, but if you can say what journey you are making and what ticket you are considering buying, we can geive a better answer.

It will probably be cheaper to wait until fares are released!

yorkie2

discat11 wrote: »

Basically it all depends on whether the use of the ticket could be regarded as avoiding any part of the fare.

i.e. if the fare from b-c is more than the fare from a-c (even if via b) then it's a deliberate avoidance, which is an offence.

You may start your journey short unless it is "made clear" to you at the time you buy the ticket that you can't.

discat11 wrote: »

This is because some branch lines have such an infrequent service they are allowed to use off peak tickets to join specific services a-c where passengers joining at b (on the main line) are paying a higher fare for a shorter journey.

I do not believe an offence would be committed in these circumstances, unless break of journey was specifically and explicitly forbidden, and it was made clear, and the customer persistently breached those conditions.

discat11 wrote: »

IF there is no fare being avoided then there shouldn't be any issue, although as drug has correctly pointed out advance fares need to be used as per their own conditions, failure to do this will render them null & void and the full open fare (single) becomes payable.

It is rail industry policy to make no charge if there is no fare "avoided", not to charge any fare, let alone a full open fare.

If break of journey is not permitted, then the correct course of action is actually to charge an excess fare, as per the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

A problem with posting rail fare questions in the MSE forum is that a lot of people just guess! These sort of questions are best asked at a dedicated Fares, Ticketing & Routeing forum, where experts can give accurate answers.

daveyjp

And without details of which stations or route the OP is talking about its not even possible to offer advice on how a low fare could be secured before the 12 week window opens.

veryintrigued

Thanks for the replies ladies and gents.

The journey is from Doncaster to Kings Cross return on an advanced. A journey we make dozens of time a year.

This time though we will be nowhere close to internet access when the journey is released 12 weeks before.

Tied in with that is the need to book bike spots too.

We could book York to Kings Cross (return) for the date right now with a cycle spot.

We've used the cycle carriage before we've never been asked to prove that we are getting on at the correct (later) station

dzug1

A risk (in theory anyway) is that when you don't take up that cycle reservation at York it will lapse and may be reallocated to another passenger

daveyjp

Advanced tickets conditions:

Break of journey

You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.