Another way to dispute a Parking Eye ticket?

Coupon-mad

armcosurfer wrote: »

Hi,the location was Wyvern Retail Park, Derby. Also just noticed, the PCN does not have the 'warning' POFA paragraph at the bottom of the letter as I've just seen in other PCN's, is this in my favour?

I did tell you that earlier...!

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You can tell from the PCN if PE are claiming keeper liability and they are probably not. They tend to use a much shorter set of wording with a white space below it when they know they are posting a NTK too late. And you don't count only to the date on the PCN; using the statute, instead you count to when you received/were served with the NTK, which was this week...so over 20 days.

If you see the shorter wording on the NTK with a white space like something is missing on the front page, then it is. The POFA part is removed and PE already know they haven't served it in time and can't rely on the POFA.

After your appeal, expect them to send a desperate letter asking again for the driver's name and address (because they have nowhere else to go with it). Ignore that, DO NOT throw away a perfect defence, do not name the driver who would have a far lesser chance at appeal/defence.

Send the usual template appeal from the NEWBIES thread but adding the fact the NTK was served too late for keeper liability. Also include anything to get them to cancel the PCN early, to give them an easy door out (e.g. receipts if the 'driver' has those or a bank statement, or a Blue Badge if applicable to the occupants of the car). PE cancel loads of these at first stage; certainly receipts can close it.

You do need to appeal to POPLA though. You will likely be sued if you don't get this quashed now. Search the forum for 'ParkingEye POPLA' but only look at RECENT ones and don't copy one using the appeal point 'not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'.

Did you not have receipts to show them from 'the occupants of the car'? They won't work at POPLA stage but should have worked at first appeal.

armcosurfer

Its a bit awkward, I'm from S.Wales but my ex is from Derby way,we were out shopping etc,she may have receipts but as we now don't speak there's no chance of getting them!
Thanks coupon, I didn't initially realise what you meant, but after seeing a couple of pics of other PCN's with the POFA wording, it clicked.
Northlakes,it was a free parking site( to be honest I didn't even notice any signs, and the only time I've previously heard of the 3 hour parking nonsense is at motorway service stations), and I was in the retail park for 4 hrs 24mins,spending money at Homebase and Costa to name just two.
I'll get on with the POPLA appeal, it !!!!es me off though to have to waste my time doing this when PE have obviously made an error and probably know it too.
Thanks for your help again,I'll let you know the outcome.

Coupon-mad

Show us your draft POPLA appeal and have 'no keeper liabliity' as point #1.

armcosurfer

Hi again, I didn't get time to post my Popla appeal draft as I was almost out of time to get it in to Popla, anyway, just received an email from Popla telling me I have 7 days to look over PE's evidence pack and raise any points. PE sent me the evidence pack in an email too. I've looked over all 36 pages of it and can see just a couple of points,this is the one that concerns me- "Please be advised,this PCN was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms act 2012. As such,the appellants comments regarding the PCN being issued incorrectly are not relevant in the case". What do they mean by it? In the evidence pack it says that this car park is ANPR monitored and enforced. I received the PCN by post (no windscreen ticket) and the Date of Event was 26/03/2016 with the Date Issued being 12/04/2016, so clearly this was outside of the 14 days allowed under POFA?
Another point they state in the evidence pack that concerns me is this- "It must also be noted that any person who makes a contract in his own name without disclosing the existence of a proncipal,or who ,through disclosing the fact that he is acting as an agent on behalf of a principal,renders himself personally liable on the contract,is entitled to enforce it against the other contrcating party.(Fairlie v Fenton (1870) LR 5 Ech.169)
I'm assuming this is the response to my demand for an unredacted copy of the contract between PE and the landowner?
What response,if any, should I send to POPLA? I have 3 days to reply to them. Again, your help is much appreciated,thanks.

Coupon-mad

If there is no contract nor witness statement AT ALL in there, you will win as long as you did have that in your appeal.

And re this:

"Please be advised,this PCN was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms act 2012. As such,the appellants comments regarding the PCN being issued incorrectly are not relevant in the case". What do they mean by it?

Well it's an indication (as long as the driver was NEVER identified in any appeal and as long as your POPLA appeal argued 'no keeper liability because the PCN was served beyond day 15') that they do not have an answer and hope POPLA will slip up on the liability issue! POPLA are currently shocking at understanding liability and PE know that.

You just need to put something simple into the Portal (it disappears SIX days - not seven - after the POPLA email date, so do it now). Just put:

My comments on the evidence pack are that ParkingEye has failed to rebut the points in my appeal. Namely:

- they have not provided me with any copy of the landowner contract or a witness statement so they have failed to show authority flowing from the site landowner. If POPLA has this in their copy of the evidence pack then it MUST be disregarded as evidence because my copy has no such enclosure.

- they have no answer for the point that I cannot be held liable as registered keeper because they served the PCN too late (it was delivered over a week beyond the 15 day limit and was posted too late to possibly comply). It is all very well to admit ''please be advised,this PCN was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms act 2012'' but quite another to leap to any conclusion that this doesn't matter. POPLA cannot be satisfied that the driver has been identified because the driver was not the appellant and I am not appealing 'on their behalf' either. I appealed as keeper - as is my right - and cannot be held liable under the applicable law, nor can 'driver liability' apply in view of the absence of any evidence as to who that person may have been.

armcosurfer

Just done it, thanks Coupon-mad,you are a diamond.

armcosurfer

Just had my decision from POPLA and I have won my appeal!
Here is what they had to say-
"I acknowledge the reason the operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). The burden of proof lies with the operator to demonstrate that it has issued the PCN correctly. While the appellant has raised a number of grounds for appeal, my report will focus on whether the operator has authority to operate on the land. The appellant says that he does not believe the operator has the standing or authority to pursue charges or form contracts with drivers. Section 7 of the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice requires operators to own the land or to have written authority from the landowner to operate on the land. As the operator has failed to provide any evidence in response to this ground of appeal, it has failed to prove that it has the required authority to operate on the land in question. Accordingly, I must allow the appeal."
So it looks like ParkingEye don't have a legal contract with the landowners at this site,- Wyvern Retail Park, Derby. This could be an appeal winning point for anyone else who happens to get a PCN from there.
Thanks to ALL who helped me with this,and in particular,Coupon-mad, I couldn't have done it without all your help.

Coupon-mad

Well done!

Could you please link this thread in the top thread 'POPLA Decisions' for posterity, summarising the decision and who it was against (parking company) because people often forget to say when they report on that sticky thread that they've won at POPLA.

So it looks like ParkingEye don't have a legal contract with the landowners at this site,- Wyvern Retail Park, Derby. This could be an appeal winning point for anyone else who happens to get a PCN from there.

They will have a contract but they won't want to show it at POPLA stage and I suspect they couldn't get a witness statement signed in time, to cover themselves.

Definitely always worth including 'no landowner authority' as an appeal point at POPLA, it flushes out all sorts of issues that can win the appeal even though we know BPA members will actually have a contract of sorts.

:T

Umkomaas

So it looks like ParkingEye don't have a legal contract with the landowners at this site,- Wyvern Retail Park, Derby.

So you complain to the DVLA and ask them to now discontinue providing PE with any keeper detail for this site. POPLA has confirmed your assertion that landowner permission is highly questionable.

Do similarly with the BPA and ask them to confirm that they will be issuing sanction points to PE.

You're in a very good place, with that POPLA support, to exact some revenge pain on PE. Go for it.

armcosurfer

I can't post links in the Popla appeals section because I'm a newbie, so I've included the thread title so that it can be searched for.
When I get 5 minutes I'll post the complete Popla appeal draft if that's of any help to anyone.
I might just do what you suggested too Umkomaas.