Parking Appeal refused

galaxyS7

Ralph-y wrote: »

as Half_way said

who's car park was it ?

Ralph:cool:

Its just a parking place managed by Parking eye. Hope i answered the question.

Giant_Hogweed

Adjust your letter as advised by Herzlos in post No. 8. DO NOT tell them who the driver was.

galaxyS7

Thanks will do.

Coupon-mad

galaxyS7 wrote: »

Thanks will do.

First line for starters!

'I was the driver of the above vehicle' and 'I took every possible step' and '...left when I could not accept the contract' and 'What I did...'

Nonono, NOT me/myself/I unless you've already thrown that baby out with the bathwater. Our forum first appeal template is designed to stop this from happening. Hope you didn't chose 'driver' in the drop-down menu on PE's contact page when you first appealed? Or say who was driving? If you did, you'll have to bin the POFA argument about keeper liability completely of course.

galaxyS7

Coupon-mad wrote: »

First line for starters!

'I was the driver of the above vehicle' and 'I took every possible step' and '...left when I could not accept the contract' and 'What I did...'

Nonono, NOT me/myself/I unless you've already thrown that baby out with the bathwater. Our forum first appeal template is designed to stop this from happening. Hope you didn't chose 'driver' in the drop-down menu on PE's contact page when you first appealed? Or say who was driving? If you did, you'll have to bin the POFA argument about keeper liability completely of course.

I have removed the liability. i had however mentioned i was the driver as i hadnt been on this forum unfortunately. on the other post you did mention it was ok post #6 and i have used your suggested phrase in the starting paragraph.
apologies

galaxyS7

I have also noticed that there is not enough room to summarise the appeal. Is there any way round it. If I send an attachment will it be all the words or will it be shortened again to the 2000. What can I use as the grounds of appeal as I:(:( cant see anything about not paying for a ticket, the other option is to put Other but they mention that most appeals will be unsuccessful.
please advice.

Coupon-mad

That's OK.

And good to remove the whole section then, as you can't use it but it's not major v ParkingEye...you would only be kicking yoursefl if the PCN was served too late for keeper liability (after 15 days) and you'd named the driver which would be silly. Mostly PE serve their NTKs in time and POPLA would have considered the PCN compliant anyway, if served in time.

...anyway you have to leave that point behind and make the others winning points. And in your case, YOU CAN leave your first paragraph as 'I was the driver' etc. because that ship has already sailed.

In your point #1, add the actual Grace Periods section 13 from the CoP.

Bin point #3 as that's about 'no loss', not relevant to a POPLA appeal as they will just say the Beavis case applies. You need to replace it completely. You need to read some more recent POPLA appeals to find how to argue it that no contract was accepted so the Beavis case cannot apply, but without saying the charge must be based on a GPEOL.

Point #4, add 7.3 from the BPA CoP and find less wordy version (that point 4 is full of unnecessary words). Also make a clear allegation that you 'understand there is a 15 minute Grace Period stipulated in this landowner contract'. Just say it! Forces PE to disprove it with the actual contract, as a witness statement will not answer that point.

You can find a recent POPLA appeal with the sort of things you want to add, just be searching this forum for 'POPLA 7.3'

And get rid of #5 (where you've mentioned TPS which is another firm entirely) and bin #6.

And if you think you have to stick to 2000 characters then you haven't yet read post #3 of the NEWBIES thread properly yet! No-one sticks to 2000 characters here.

galaxyS7

UNFORTUNATELY I IDENTIFIED MYSELF IN THE APPEAL HENCE I HAVE USED I IN THIS

APPEAL RE: Parking Eye
CAR PARK: VEHICLE REG: XXXX
POPLA APPEAL CODE: XXXXXXX

I am appealing against the parking charge. I took every possible step to make payment and left when I could not accept the contract, all within the applicable grace periods allowed. What I did was perfectly reasonable under the circumstances and not a breach of the contract at all. I believe that I am not liable for the parking charge on the following grounds and would ask that all these points be considered.

1. Grace Period

The motorist must be given time to park and read the signs and find a ticket machine and have time to leave the site at the end of parking .And also search for a member of the Parking Team to enquire about anything that is confusing about the sign. (attempts were made to make enquiries to a guy who I believed was a parking attendant as he was wearing a high visibility jacket but turned out to be a customer. Should parking eye have CCTV on the land this will be confirmed.)

Time in the Car Park is not a period of Parking. Therefore it is not indicative of the time entering the car park and cannot be used as accurate reference as does not state when the free period ends, very misleading and confusing once again. Kelvin Reynolds, Head of Public Affairs and Policy at the British Parking Association (BPA) says there is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.
“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park. The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket,” he explains. This is what I did.
“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”
The BPA’s guidance defines the ‘grace period’ as the time allowed after permitted or paid-for parking has expired but before any kind of enforcement takes place..

Also the small print on the machines take ages to read and a person may even need to then go back to collect glasses from their car as the print is so tiny.

The British Parking Association Code of Practice states the motorist must be given time to read the signs and time to leave the site at end of parking. 13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice. 13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action. 13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.
The grace period can be an arbitrary number as in certain cases this can take longer depending on the circumstances for example in this car park there are only two ticket machines so you could wait just 10mins to queue as well as put money and number plates in a ticket machine, especially if you are not familiar with the typing in machine which requires number plates, this might also mean going back to the car to double check number plate of car.

2. Parking Charges
Section 34.3 of the BPA code states that Parking charges must be fair, reasonable and not disproportionately high and I believe to be charged £60- £100 for going in a car park and coming out without using the facilities is really high and unfair
Also there is no commercial justification to ensure traffic turnover on the site as a motorist could have paid £5 to stay longer in the car park if required, the charge can't possibly be a genuine, agreed contractual offer to park.
3 Signs
The Car Park had Confusing Unclear ambiguous inadequate signage not compliant with the BPA Standards creating unreasonable and unfair terms with no valid contract formed with Parking Eye and therefore no agreement to pay £100
I believe the signs that Parking Eye are relying on were confusing and the small print too small for anyone to see read or understand whilst in this car park.
18.1 A driver who uses your private car park with your permission does so under a licence or contract with you. If they park without your permission this will usually be an act of trespass. In all cases, the driver’s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver should be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are.
18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.

For a contract to be formed, one of the many considerations is that there must be adequate sign-age on entering the car park and throughout the car park. I contend that there is not.

4. Written Authorisation from land owner
Section 7.3 points out our compliance team are responsible for making sure that you follow the Code. If the team give you reasonable notice, you must allow our appointed manager to inspect the landowner’s written authorisation, I 'understand there is a 15 minute Grace Period stipulated in this landowner contract'

The ANPR cameras record the time a veers and leaves the site and parking time should then commence once the driver has parked the car and walked to the machine but there is an inconsistent in these timings as they are not synchronised, the operator relies on the time between entry and exit only not on the time from the pay and display machine. Another valid point is that the car park is really muddy when it rains, and has puddles, on the given day I parked in a puddle and had to move to a better parking space considering I had kids in the car, all this was before even making it to the machine, the argument is the ground is not well maintained. On the basis of all the points that have been raised, the parking charge notice fails to meet standards set in the British Parking Association Code of Practice .I reject the charge and would appreciate that you review all my points and allow the appeal.

Coupon-mad

UNFORTUNATELY I IDENTIFIED MYSELF IN THE APPEAL HENCE I HAVE USED I IN THIS

Yep, like I said that's OK then, can't be changed now.

But you haven't added everything I suggested above ye...


...and I don't understand this:

Section 7.3 points out our compliance team are responsible for making sure that you follow the Code. If the team give you reasonable notice, you must allow our appointed manager to inspect the landowner’s written authorisation, I 'understand there is a 15 minute Grace Period stipulated in this landowner contract'

You need to fully quote points a - e in section 7.3, then separately state that you understand there is a 15 minute Grace Period stipulated in this landowner contract (get rid of the speech marks) and state that you put the operator to strict proof otherwise which a witness statement or letter will not be sufficient to evidence.

galaxyS7

Thank you to all who helped me with my appeal especially Coupon- mad. Appreciate your time and help.

Decision Successful
Assessor Name xxxx Txxxr
Assessor summary of operator case
The operator’s case is that the appellant has failed to purchase sufficient time to cover their stay in the car park.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant’s case is that there is no contract, as they reviewed the terms and conditions and decided not to park. The appellant advises that the operator has no authority to issue PCNs on this land, and that the charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The appellant further states that the signage is unclear and that the ANPR is unreliable and inaccurate.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle, registration number XX12XXX, entering Aire Street car park at 15:25, and exiting at 15:37, totalling a stay of 12 minutes. The operator states that it has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant has failed to make payment for their time in the car park. The appellant advises that the operator does not have the sufficient authority to issue charges on the land. Section 7.1 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice outlines to operators, “If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent). The written confirmation must be given before you can start operating on the land in question and give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of car park management for the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner (or their appointed agent) requires you to keep to the Code of Practice and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges”. The operator has provided a site agreement in response to this ground of appeal. Upon review of this, I cannot consider that the operator had sufficient authority on the date of the contravention, as the document is signed on the date of 1st April 2016. The date of the parking event in this case is the 12th March 2016, as such I cannot consider that the operator had the sufficient authority on the date of the event, to issue PCNs on the land. As such, I cannot determine that the PCN has been issued correctly While I note that the appellant has raised other grounds for appeal, I have not considered these as I have already allowed the appeal on this ground.