Mortgaged property bought jointly, who owns it?

AnotherJoe

Fair enough question and no offence taken.
Simple logic, you are individual people.

When I pay tax I pay my tax, my wife and I don't combine our salaries and pay as if we we one person. If you own a car and get married, your partner doesn't immediately own half the car. If you own a house and get married your partner doesnt immediately own half the house or indeed your possessions.

Now having said that the only reason it would be different is how you organised things when you put her name on the deeds and you organised it so you ought to know

But if you had organised it differently for example half you and wife between you and half mother, I'd have expected there to be an entry on the land register stating it was 25% 25% 50%. The fact it doesn't pretty much implies it must be equal shares because if it's not equal shares that would need to be mentioned otherwise how the heck is anyone meant to know ??? It could be anything couldn't it? It might be 20, 43, 37. How would anyone know it wasn't equal shares unless it stated exactly what it was? But it doesn't so it must be.

But like I said, you need a solicitor. Did you get into this mess because you did it on the cheap and DIYd it ?

matttye

ftsos wrote: »

Hi Mattye,

Firstly, a big thank you for your reply.

The problem is I don't know. All I know is I bought the house applied for a mortgage, and she was not on the mortgage application, however, she is on the deed of the property. However, on the deed its my name, then my wife name, and then her name.

Lets assume the worst for a second, and assume she is a beneficial owner, why does she get 50%, as there is 3 of us?

I just checked the Land Registry document, she is down as the proprietor, alongside my name and my wifes name.

Your mother's name being on the proprietorship register only means she is a legal owner. It doesn't necessarily follow that she has any beneficial interest in the property.

You would have made a deed of trust or a form JO or something like that in order to give her a beneficial interest IF she has one. Apart from that the only way she could build up an interest would be if she contributed towards the purchase in some way e.g. if she contributed towards the mortgage payments.

ftsos

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Fair enough question and no offence taken.
Simple logic, you are individual people.

When I pay tax I pay my tax, my wife and I don't combine our salaries and pay as if we we one person. If you own a car and get married, your partner doesn't immediately own half the car. If you own a house and get married your partner doesnt immediately own half the house or indeed your possessions.

Now having said that the only reason it would be different is how you organised things when you put her name on the deeds and you organised it so you ought to know

But if you had organised it differently for example half you and wife between you and half mother, I'd have expected there to be an entry on the land register stating it was 25% 25% 50%. The fact it doesn't pretty much implies it must be equal shares because if it's not equal shares that would need to be mentioned otherwise how the heck is anyone meant to know ??? It could be anything couldn't it? It might be 20, 43, 37. How would anyone know it wasn't equal shares unless it stated exactly what it was? But it doesn't so it must be.

But like I said, you need a solicitor. Did you get into this mess because you did it on the cheap and DIYd it ?

Thanks well answered and what you say makes sense.

BrassicWoman

why not ask the solicitor who did the purchase for you? They have all the files and so you'll just be paying for one letter, not loads of research!

ftsos

matttye wrote: »

Your mother's name being on the proprietorship register only means she is a legal owner. It doesn't necessarily follow that she has any beneficial interest in the property.

You would have made a deed of trust or a form JO or something like that in order to give her a beneficial interest IF she has one. Apart from that the only way she could build up an interest would be if she contributed towards the purchase in some way e.g. if she contributed towards the mortgage payments.

I always assumed if someone was registered as the legal owner, that also means they have a beneficial interest. Maybe its my ignorance, but that bit is definitely confusing.

Anyway, I am normally quite organised, and I scan almost all my documents, and I searched and found the paperwork the solicitors gave me, I took a screen shot for you, and none of the boxes were ticked. I assume the solicitors did it as joint owners, or I would have asked them to (probably).

I suppose I am very grateful to you all. Even though I don't not have a definitive answer, I am fairly confident, based on what everyone here has said, that we are all joint owners, so a 3 way split, and the truth is I can live with that and sleep at night, even though I pay the mortgage, and put the whole deposit, it was also my mums home. Even if she had no rights to it, I still couldn't ever put her in a situation where she is vulnerable. It would not sit right with me. But I know how she is, if she feels she owns 50% or more she will force me to pay and suffer in more ways than one. So I just needed to protect my self and my wife and child, who are my first priority.

Anyway guys, thank you.

ftsos

BrassicWoman wrote: »

why not ask the solicitor who did the purchase for you? They have all the files and so you'll just be paying for one letter, not loads of research!

Thanks. I have already emailed them, a few hours ago. Thank you.

kingstreet

AnotherJoe wrote: »

No it won't. I'm surprised your mortgage company would let you do this. Or did you do it after you paid the mortgage off ?

HSBC I suspect. Only lender offering two borrower/three proprietor scenario.

rtho782

There is no way she owns half of it. At best she owns a third.

I'm convinced that if it went to court she probably owns less than that, as she has never contributed to the mortgage or the deposit.

ftsos

rtho782 wrote: »

There is no way she owns half of it. At best she owns a third.

I'm convinced that if it went to court she probably owns less than that, as she has never contributed to the mortgage or the deposit.

@rtho782, firstly thanks for your comments. I wrote a detailed response to you on my phone when I was out and about, but somehow it never got published! Does anyone know if MSE forums has its own App, or if Tapatalk works on it. I tried with Tapatalk, and unless I did something wrong, it just didn't connect to the forums for MSE.

Anyway, back to your response, I know you mean well, but I am not sure you are right, and I'll explain my reasoning. Lets assume we went to court. This is how the courts will look at it as far as I see it. This was the family home. My father and mother got it as the lead tenants, and we were adults by then, but they were the parents, and we were included as tenants or people living in the house, as we were 18 and classed as adults, and the council would not give this size house to just a couple. So without us the children, my mum and dad (my dad died almost 10 years ago now), would not have been eligible for this property.

So, the courts would say that it was her home, and I suppose my family home as well. And by us buying it, she has lost her home. Even thought we all wanted own our own home. As she is 65, they will look at it sympathetically, and worst case scenario, "taking advantage of an older person" card could even be played. Just playing devils advocate, and giving a counter argument to yours. So even though she has not pain a penny towards the deposit, and a penny towards a single mortgage payment, nor did she have to contribute a penny in all the years since buying the house in terms of food bills etc, even then, I feel as the lead tenant from before, she may have some ownership automatically. Thats what I have always felt and believed. I hope I am wrong. But thats what my assumption has been. Some of my worst fears have been taken care of by some of the nice people on this forum. So in some ways I am relieved.

One other thing, an update to anyone else who has been reading this, and following this. I have had a response from the original solicitors who did the purchase, and they said we are all joint tenants, which means equal. I have sent them a reply to clarify if 2 people being married makes any difference, but I have not had a reply to that yet.

However, I have a very bad feeling about this whole situation. I won't get into that here, or right now.

matttye

ftsos wrote: »

@rtho782, firstly thanks for your comments. I wrote a detailed response to you on my phone when I was out and about, but somehow it never got published! Does anyone know if MSE forums has its own App, or if Tapatalk works on it. I tried with Tapatalk, and unless I did something wrong, it just didn't connect to the forums for MSE.

Anyway, back to your response, I know you mean well, but I am not sure you are right, and I'll explain my reasoning. Lets assume we went to court. This is how the courts will look at it as far as I see it. This was the family home. My father and mother got it as the lead tenants, and we were adults by then, but they were the parents, and we were included as tenants or people living in the house, as we were 18 and classed as adults, and the council would not give this size house to just a couple. So without us the children, my mum and dad (my dad died almost 10 years ago now), would not have been eligible for this property.

So, the courts would say that it was her home, and I suppose my family home as well. And by us buying it, she has lost her home. Even thought we all wanted own our own home. As she is 65, they will look at it sympathetically, and worst case scenario, "taking advantage of an older person" card could even be played. Just playing devils advocate, and giving a counter argument to yours. So even though she has not pain a penny towards the deposit, and a penny towards a single mortgage payment, nor did she have to contribute a penny in all the years since buying the house in terms of food bills etc, even then, I feel as the lead tenant from before, she may have some ownership automatically. Thats what I have always felt and believed. I hope I am wrong. But thats what my assumption has been. Some of my worst fears have been taken care of by some of the nice people on this forum. So in some ways I am relieved.

One other thing, an update to anyone else who has been reading this, and following this. I have had a response from the original solicitors who did the purchase, and they said we are all joint tenants, which means equal. I have sent them a reply to clarify if 2 people being married makes any difference, but I have not had a reply to that yet.

However, I have a very bad feeling about this whole situation. I won't get into that here, or right now.

If you're beneficial joint tenants that means all of you own the entire house. You don't each own a notional share in it like you would if you were tenants in common.