Buying a new house - heating options

alarge

Hi

I have posted in the Energy > LPG, Heating oil, Solid & Other fuels category, but it has been suggested I try posting here to get some advice / help. I can't link to it as I am a new member but it's near the top if you wanted to see what others have been saying. Here is the original text ...

My partner and I are in the process of purchasing our first home, which is an ex council 3 bed semi detached house. It currently has a log burning back boiler / fire place in the living / dining room and storage heaters else where. We have no access to mains gas. There is an electric shower as well. Though to get hot water we would need to light the fire!

This setup is obviously really expensive and would not suit our lifestyle! We have ideas for making the downstairs all open plan (kitchen, living, dining) with a log burner which would provide the majority of the heating downstairs. We also have range cooker (gas hobs / electric ovens) which is currently run on LPG bottles. We will be taking with us and putting in a new kitchen.

I am pretty sure we would need a combi boiler either oil or LPG. My partners brother is a Gas Safe plumber (not Oftec) so LPG, due to cooker and cheaper installation costs is looking favorable. I have read a lot on here about how contracts / tank rental etc makes it a minefield so would like to buy my own tank much like you would with oil. I have already found a supplier that could do 33ppl + 5% VAT in my area. Will also be checking Woldlink as have read a post that says they are now 22.93ppl +5% VAT!!

Am I being realistic in purchasing a new tank myself? I have seen on eBay a company that sells them with certificates etc. Has anyone else done this? Or can give me any advice on getting a tank?

I only ask as a lot of advice seems to be install oil from the get go! I will of course be installing underfloor insulation and get cavity wall insulation too!

On the flip side should we be looking at air source / ground source? Where can I find info on the costs / grants available for this? Roof is south facing so maybe even solar? I haven't really looked in to these as I assume they will be a lot more expensive to install and the house is probably not our forever home!

Many thanks

Andrew

Furts

I suggest you visit NSBRC at Swindon for their second Eco Day on 21 May. This is FOC. You will gain the inside, genuine, story on air source, ground source and solar pv, plus numerous other info. This will protect you from sales people, spin, BS and misleading info.

Basically you will be told to get your fabric right, insulate everywhere, ventilate and draft proof,and then, and only then, consider heating options.

There are no grants available to encourage you towards ground, air or solar. What is available is paid to compensate for the additional costs over a conventional system- provided you meet the criteria

Nothing beats a conventtional system fired by gas. You do not have gas, but you should have economy seven, or ten, for your storage heaters. These are dirt cheap to run, so the sustainable, eco route would be" if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Oil will not always be cheap, but your electric is circa one penny per KWh more than gas, which makes it a bargain.

Hope this helps.

Smiley_Dan

Great advice. What's your budget?

Personally I think no/little heating is better than cheap heating.

alarge

Looking at £5000 at the most really, want to put a driveway in as currently only on road parking so that is hitting my budget on renewables. But Swindon is not far away and that would be a very good idea, just so I can understand everything!

Just had a call from a guy who advised against purchasing the tank myself as he believed given the current market I can rent an underground tank for £100 per year and get down to at least 30ppl fixed for the 2 years and maybe free installation of the tank if I play each provider off each other. He kind of did win me over to that way of thinking in saying that even electricity and mains gas has a standing charge roughly the same.

The only issue would be how often they expect me to fill up, becuase there is every chance it may only be once a year. If I can get it so they can't fleece me that way then it seems to be a better deal!

Smiley_Dan

Ok, well if that's the case then it's one of the conventional solutions you have already outlined.

southcoastrgi

Look at solar pv, solar heating has gone right down the pan, speak to Calor they normally have some very good deals if you use them as a new customer

Furts

alarge wrote: »

Looking at £5000 at the most really, want to put a driveway in as currently only on road parking so that is hitting my budget on renewables. But Swindon is not far away and that would be a very good idea, just so I can understand everything!

Just had a call from a guy who advised against purchasing the tank myself as he believed given the current market I can rent an underground tank for £100 per year and get down to at least 30ppl fixed for the 2 years and maybe free installation of the tank if I play each provider off each other. He kind of did win me over to that way of thinking in saying that even electricity and mains gas has a standing charge roughly the same.

The only issue would be how often they expect me to fill up, becuase there is every chance it may only be once a year. If I can get it so they can't fleece me that way then it seems to be a better deal!

Your comment echoes my earlier reply. You may want lpg, but to say this is no dearer than the standing charge on your electric totally misses the point. You are currently paying no additional charges above that of your electric, which makes the comment misleading spin.

Equally if it is your need to go down such routes on a very low budget then I would advise against all your eco concepts. Efficient heating and ventilation is far more important than "nice to haves" such as a drive. The rule with eco approaches is "fabric first", and likewise with all renovation projects.

If you able to get your fabric right, then I would expect your total energy bill to be well under £1000 per year. The achievable target would be £500 per year. This makes any expenditure on ground source, or air source, or solar or lpg look like unnecessary expenditure. It would also fund your driveway!

Hope this helps.

mrsmazza

We have oil here. We recently had a new Oil boiler, they also re jigged the pipework, that was £4,500.

Although we did get a quote of £ 3,500.

To fill up half a tank of oil was £ 200, but that has lasted 5 months.. We have underfloor heating here, so it is on permanently. And we live at in a large old barn so a lot of floor space to heat up.
No idea how much a tank costs.

Just to add, with oil tanks if they leak, you can be fined thousands !!( I have heard it's about 100k ) So if you do buy one get a qualified person into do it.

alarge

Thanks for the info. I know I need to ensure the fabric is sealed up good to make best use of any system. Unfortunately the roof only has minimal insulation, so will need to look up further improving that, doing insulation under the flooring and even cavity wall. Although I have heard some bad stories of dampness caused by the insulation in cavity transferring the water. Perhaps I will see if the neighbours have had it done and had any issues as they're all built at the same time.

I had an email from Avanti gas with a quote which I was suprised to see:

Potentially free install of underground tank, subject to survey and if I dig hole / trench and provide base.
£110 p/a standing charge for underground tank
27pence per litre (exc 5% VAT) fixed for the whole 2 year contract

Perhaps not as bad a deal as I was thinking considering to buy a new tank by myself is looking be at least £2000. It would also help with my funds in the short term!

Smiley_Dan

"Even" cavity wall? If you have a cavity wall, and it's judicious to install it (not exposed) then it's the absolute minimum that should be done. Damage from CWI failure is rare. Be judicious for sure but it only affects where the work has either been done poorly or the house is exposed. I suggest you use EPS bead.

Indeed, for almost all CW properties the cavities are not wide enough to take enough insulant, so further insulation is required.

But try telling Amber "Tickbox" Rudd that.

Furts

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

"Even" cavity wall? If you have a cavity wall, and it's judicious to install it (not exposed) then it's the absolute minimum that should be done. Damage from CWI failure is rare. Be judicious for sure but it only affects where the work has either been done poorly or the house is exposed. I suggest you use EPS bead.

Indeed, for almost all CW properties the cavities are not wide enough to take enough insulant, so further insulation is required.

But try telling Amber "Tickbox" Rudd that.

I go with this but add to the comment regarding cavities. These tend to be 50mm clear width, and this will give a reasonable depth of bead insulation. In addition, aircrete insulation blocks have been in use since at least the early 1970s for building houses, so many people will have reasonable insulation once the cavity is filled.

If alarge is serious about renovating and improving then they will be checking the cavities, and rectifying where necessary, before the CWI is undertaken.