Extyension ~ Architect drawings - Help, please!

OrangeHelp

Hi
We are hoping to have an extension built. Architect drawings are currently with the planning department and we hope to get an answer within the next couple of weeks.
I have been trying to get "working" drawings done so that I can obtain builders quotes. My architect has said that she'll not be able to do these for about 3 weeks/1 month. As she will have to "employ" the services of a structural engineer it was recommended, not by her, that I get an actual engineer to do the drawings.
I have put the drawings through to one and he's come back to say that the submitted drawings appear incorrect (1st floor/roof line don't seem to match and other queries) and likelihood is that he'll have to redo the drawings.
Can it be that the architect got it so wrong? Any clues how I can tell who is providing the right info.?
Does anyone know if the planning department will pick this up or do they just look at the plans to ensure they meet with conservation rules and are aesthetically pleasing?
Should I get a 2nd opinion and if so where from - will the building regs. department be able to assist?

Any advise will be greatly appreciated - thus far fees have totalled approx. £1.5k and l fear it's money down the drain. :sad:

System

architects drawing for planning should be accurate enough for those purposes, but you wouldn't ever build from them. (they are likely at a scale of 1:100 or 1:50 and don't include written dimensions?)
I'm not sure why they wouldn't recommend an engineer (or a few) that they normally work with to get the building regulation info/tender info/construction info - It's not normal to leave a client to liase directly with an engineer as there is generally some too-ing and fro-ing as the design develops and the engineers details are coordinated into the architects drawings.
The engineer should be doing their own drawings anyway as they will show only information relevant to the engineering of the works.

It is also advisable to wait until you have planning permission in place before you instruct further work from an architect or engineer to produce working drawings in case there are any changes required to gain planning approval or worse still, the project is refused and you've got to pay for a full set of working drawings that you have instructed.
(tbh I'm not sure why the architect isn't advising of these things anyway - are they registered architects and have you appointed them using a formal agreement?)

teneighty

You would only normally need a structural engineer if there were complicated structural details such as a large steel beam etc. otherwise the Architect should be able to produce the detailed construction plans/working drawings. 3 to 4 weeks may not be too unreasonable depending on the Architects workload especially if they need structural calculations.

Whether the drawings contain errors is something you should discuss with the Architect.

£1500 fee is rather steep just for Planning Application drawings for a two storey residential extension unless it is especially complicated.

System

teneighty wrote: »

You would only normally need a structural engineer if there were complicated structural details such as a large steel beam etc. otherwise the Architect should be able to produce the detailed construction plans/working drawings. 3 to 4 weeks may not be too unreasonable depending on the Architects workload especially if they need structural calculations.

tbh I would whole-heartedly disagree with that, where you are altering an existing building I would always advise the involvement of a structural engineer - can't imagine there's cover in the architects pii for an incorrectly specified new structure either, or to cover an assessment of the existing structure/foundations etc

OrangeHelp

Thanks to the_r_sole and teneighty for quick responses....

The architect is registered and we have a formal agreement

As we are in a conservation area the architect recommended that we submit for pre-app. advice. We had to make a number of changes as per the planning dept. and submitted; we're hoping (fingers crossed) that as we had pre "chats" we should get the plans approved. The planning dept. stated that we should have a decision no later than 19th April - hence my desire to get things moving asap.

The structural engineer has commented "proposed roof plan does not tie up with the proposed rear elevation" & "plans will be quite difficult to work structurally, it seems virtually all of the ground floor cross walls have been removed".

During the pre-app process the planning dept. pointed out issues and made comments that knocked my confidence in the architect a wee bit hence my concern now.

Re prices.. yes, received detailed but as we were in a conservation area etc it was explained that costs would be a bit higher. For the next stage she's quoted £2,100 (incl. structural engineer & party wall surveyor but excl. LA fees).
We are a small 2 up/2 down semi - 1st floor = moving bathroom & increasing the size of 1 bedroom. Ground floor = putting in downstairs loo & enlarging kitchen/diner & opening it onto garden.

Perhaps as the_r_sole states I should discuss with the architect - as they say "it's good to talk" but any ideas/ recommendations will be appreciated.

System

So the money you've spent already, includes for a survey of the existing building, a pre-application submission and subsequent discussion with the planners, and then the detailed planning application? £1500 is more than reasonable!
What is it that "doesn't match up" with the roof plan and elevation, for a planning application a roof plan is usually at a lesser scale than an elevation drawing so could just be a scaling issue?

Are you sure their price for the next stage includes an engineer? it's a huge risk on their part if they are paying the engineer but asking you to appoint one! what if the engineer says it will cost £3k for their services - it's not good practice for architects to appoint consultants on behalf of the client, so I would double check that.

If you have lost faith in the architect at this stage it may be best to get someone else to do the construction information for you as it sounds like you don't trust them.
I wouldn't worry about some slight disceprancies on planning drawings tbh, if there were differences in a plan and elevation on construction information that is completely different, but without knowing the quality of the drawings produced its impossible to comment properly

teneighty

From the limited information available is rather sounds to me like it is time to appoint a new designer.

It concerns me that they have produced planning drawings that the structural engineer thinks will be difficult to work structurally. It is something that I find more frequently and is reinforced by Mr R Soles comments about appointing a structural engineer. Many architects these days, especially recently qualified ones do not seem to understand even basic construction techniques. They produce their pretty pictures that either a structural engineer or the long suffering builder has to develop into something that is actually buildable and doesn't cost a fortune.

For small residential projects like this I would always recommend a qualified architectural designer rather than a full blown registered architect. You will probably find that you will get a far better design with all the architectural finesse but which is both practical and cost effective whilst paying probably half the fee of an Architect.

OrangeHelp

Thanks for comments/advice. Haven't totally lost faith in the current architect but, being a "newbie" at this I am a little worried; I'll have a chat with her re my concerns and confirm the fees moving forward re the structural engineer etc).

the_r_sole - just FYI; I received a further "final submission" (so 2 "final") invoice 2 weeks after we did the submission; this for a further £600 which was not in the original quote and on top of the £1,500. This I'm querying - you may feel that this addition will be more inline with what you'd expect?