Merseyrail "Draconian"

Steve_xx

Dylanwing wrote: »

Wow, first Steve_XX writes the most OTT twaddle ever and then gets thanked 3 times. WHY?? - Even the hang 'em flog 'em Daily Mail was not impressed with this. Then, I actually agree with Ejones!!
If convicted, this girl would have a criminal record, could have lost her job, and been banned from visiting the USA. What the court are saying is that for this type of minor offence (Feet were quickly removed, with an apology) a fixed penalty is more appropriate, so that the courts are not clogged up with trivial cases brought by petty jobsworths enforcing minor rules over-zealously. They give shoplifters under £150 fixed penalties to free up courts to hear more important cases, not to be filled by this sort of rubbish.
Well, once the UK Government actually bring in zero tolerance and have actually cleared some of the yobs off the street, maybe then we can think of prosecuting feet offenders.

You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

If the girl had been convicted, as she ought to have been by these barmy magistrates, then it would have sent a signal to others not to do this type of thing. The result of that signal would be that the courts would not be clogged up with trivial matters because the lesson would be learned. Get it?

I reiterate what I said earlier. The action of this barmy court has been to send the opposite signal to the yobs who ruin and deface the trains, ie do what you like because you can't be prosecuted for it. That's great really, just great.

photome

Dylanwing wrote: »

Wow, first Steve_XX writes the most OTT twaddle ever and then gets thanked 3 times. WHY?? - Even the hang 'em flog 'em Daily Mail was not impressed with this. Then, I actually agree with Ejones!!
If convicted, this girl would have a criminal record, could have lost her job, and been banned from visiting the USA. What the court are saying is that for this type of minor offence (Feet were quickly removed, with an apology) a fixed penalty is more appropriate, so that the courts are not clogged up with trivial cases brought by petty jobsworths enforcing minor rules over-zealously. They give shoplifters under £150 fixed penalties to free up courts to hear more important cases, not to be filled by this sort of rubbish.
Well, once the UK Government actually bring in zero tolerance and have actually cleared some of the yobs off the street, maybe then we can think of prosecuting feet offenders.

She does have a criminal record....A conditional discharge means that she was guilty of the offence and that goes on file

Sam_Bee

No no no! Did no-one read the report. She pleaded guilty and was given an Absolute Discharge, so no, it's not on her record.

She was training to be a teacher, and would have to abandon that career choice if she had been given a criminal record.

Surely the most hardened / right wing / daily mail amongst you must appreciate that losing someone who would potentially be a great teacher and asset to the nation for making a 'mistake' of putting her feet on a seat is overly draconian? Are you all really whiter than white?

I doubt she'll be doing it again, no lasting damage done to her career and it certainly sends out a message to others travelling on MerseyRail not to put their feet on seats. All in all, job done, time to move on.

curtlyb

Sam_Bee wrote: »

She was training to be a teacher,

Hopefully she'll never teach my kids, the school my children attend prides itself on teaching it's intake social skills which no ofsted report can measure in a league table, they learn basic manners and what is right and wrong, things that this country seems to deem unimportant in this day and age.
RESPECT is the order of the day here and, as has been posted earlier, minor indiscretions such as this together with spitting, dropping litter and graffiti etc etc sometimes escalate to far more serious 'crimes'.

This should have been dealt with immediately with an 'on the spot' fine and maybe a ban from the transport service if they deem it necessary, if it was a repeat offence (note: this one wasn't) then a court appearance might be the only way to change a persons perception of what is acceptable.

Sam_Bee

curtlyb wrote: »

Hopefully she'll never teach my kids, the school my children attend prides itself on teaching it's intake social skills which no ofsted report can measure in a league table, they learn basic manners and what is right and wrong, things that this country seems to deem unimportant in this day and age.
RESPECT is the order of the day here and, as has been posted earlier, minor indiscretions such as this together with spitting, dropping litter and graffiti etc etc sometimes escalate to far more serious 'crimes'.

This should have been dealt with immediately with an 'on the spot' fine and maybe a ban from the transport service if they deem it necessary, if it was a repeat offence (note: this one wasn't) then a court appearance might be the only way to change a persons perception of what is acceptable.

What on earth? Well at least we agree on what the penalty should be.

If you think that depriving a (very young) potential teacher from teaching because of one (minor) mistake you are advocating quite a horrible planet. If I was you i'd withdraw your children from school straight away as I can guarantee that most of their teachers would have done far more serious things.

Some of them might fare dodged, some might have smoked dope, or perhaps got a speeding ticket, or even *Shock Horror* dropped litter, pretty much like the rest of the population. In fact, odds are, mine, and your children will probably at some point as well.

I wish I lived in your perfect world. Actually, I don't. It sounds like hell.

alanrowell

Sam_Bee wrote: »

If you think that depriving a (very young) potential teacher from teaching because of one (minor) mistake you are advocating quite a horrible planet.

Welcome to the world of zero tolerance

Dylanwing

Hopefully she'll never teach my kids

If your kids are as intolerant as you, I bet she hopes that she never has to teach them!

What's life like when you are so perfect?

Victors_Bruvver

curtlyb wrote: »

RESPECT is the order of the day here and, as has been posted earlier, minor indiscretions such as this together with spitting, dropping litter and graffiti etc etc sometimes escalate to far more serious 'crimes'.

You got it in one curtlyb; RESPECT. There isn't any anymore.

I just wonder how this young woman would have reacted and what she would have said to me, an ageing member of the public, if I asked her to remove her feet from the seat? She may be all sweet and innocent in her press & tv interviews but I am beginning to learn that it is now unwise to say anything to people of this age group and younger nowadays as all I will get back in return is just verbal abuse or possibly something worse.

Okay, call me Mr Grumby, but see it from I stand and you will see that it is no longer 'cool' for young people to show respect or consideration to others nowadays. How many times have people tried to walk through you or leave doors to slam in your face, or you are stood in a queue for train or bus and close to you is a group of youngsters and every other word is an expletive?

The girl was caught breaking the law, By Law, if want to be pedantict but a law it is and she should have paid the penalty.

Flexible_Friend

The girl simply has no manners and no consideration for other people. Not the crime of the century, I admit, but she should've been punished for being disrespectful to others. God help us (and her pupils) if she ever becomes a teacher.

curtlyb

Sam_Bee wrote: »

If you think that depriving a (very young) potential teacher from teaching because of one (minor) mistake you are advocating quite a horrible planet.

Come on, grow up. Look at my post and i never advocated anything like that, talk about putting words in my mouth :rolleyes:.
My first comment was a touch facetious maybe but at the end of the day small things like spitting, littering etc etc are sometimes just the start of greater things, when i see a parent in a packed supermarket telling a child to f***ing shut up and when my best mate, who is a primary school head teacher tells me that every year he takes 30x 9/10yr olds away on a school trip and and at least 10 don't know how to hold a knife and fork, additionally this year he had two pupils who had never used knives and forks, it's these things amongst others that make you start to think that fabric of society is getting rather tatty around the edges.


I'm fairly young, in my 30's and neither my children or i are at all perfect, they know to behave if we go into a restaurant because they know they can run riot in the park afterwards....... it's all about give and take and to be fair it's not rocket science. My 6yr old stood up to allow an elderly lady to sit down on the tube when we visited london last week, actions like that haven't been beaten into him but he knew that he done the right thing, he wasn't a hero, just common sense.

RESPECT is a common 'buzzword' these days but i feel that it's entirely justified to point out the recent lack of it in our society, the girl on the train 'seems' a decent member of society and, as i've already said, the punishment was misjudged and should have been an on-the-spot fine but she was caught by a measure brought in to try and reduce anti-social behaviour and if helps keep our transport and streets cleaner and safer and makes people's live's slightly more pleasant then so be it.