Simple bullet point instructions please :-)

Coupon-mad

A-mac wrote: »

Coupon-mad: Prob because I'm a pensioner and not familar with the termonology and terms. It's easy to find things simple when words are familiar.

I am not in the first flush of youth myself. Can't see any terminology there? Any acronyms are all explained in another post there.

What makes a PCN fake? By fake is it meaning fraudulent or just invalid?

Not a 'real fine', just a 'charge' dressed up to impersonate a real Council parking ticket. The Watchdog clip illustrates what I mean.

BE AWARE the Watchdog clip is old and ONLY applicable to Scotland/NI now and would NOT be the case if this incident had taken place in England/Wales, because the POFA 2012 created the concept of keeper liability South of the Border - hence all the advice about how to appeal one, in those circs.

"If IN Scotland" meaning resident in or parking in? That isn't clear. That's why I asked.

Both. That's why I worded it that way...deliberately. No need for me to make the NEWBIES thread even longer by going into detail where the advice is VERY simple = 'ignore, the keeper cannot be liable'. After all it's a subject that is easy enough to Google.

Fruitcake: No. The keeper and the driver both live in England and NOT in Scotland. The only Scottish thing about this is the location of the car park.

Good, so no keeper liability is possible for an incident there.

In any case, VCS do not use wording saying the keeper can be liable, if you read the PCN and letters carefully. They desperately want to know who was driving and mention only 'driver liability' and 'assuming that the keeper was the driver' (which is not a safe assumption nor backed by consumer law). So even if you had got a 'fake' (not a real fine) PCN from VCS in England, VCS could not hold the KEEPER liable.

So you just sit tight and certainly do not tell them who was driving. Which is what the NEWBIES thread says.

Umkomaas

A-mac wrote: »

Coupon-mad: Prob because I'm a pensioner and not familar with the termonology and terms. It's easy to find things simple when words are familiar.

What makes a PCH fake? By fake is it meaning fraudulent or just invalid?

"If IN Scotland" meaning resident in or parking in? That isn't clear. That's why I asked.

Frruitcake: No. The keeper and the driver both live in England and NOT in Scotland. The only Scottish thing about this is the location of the car park.

There are no references that identify the driver anywhere on this thread.

I'd be taking a closer look at your bullet point 3 in your post #6. That's pretty close to the mark and I'd be changing that wording somewhat.

The_Deep

Why are you people wasting your time, this is obviously a wind up.

A-mac_3

Well that was helpful The Deep. Obviously a wind up just how, and for what purpose?

Thank you Unkomaas. I have done so. My wording was incorrect anyway as I'm not the keeper. However the quoted versions I cannot touch.

bod1467

You've still not edited bullet 3 in post #6 ... where who was parked? Where the driver was parked?

Fruitcake

A-mac wrote: »

Coupon-mad: Prob because I'm a pensioner and not familar with the termonology and terms. It's easy to find things simple when words are familiar.

What makes a PCH fake? By fake is it meaning fraudulent or just invalid?

"If IN Scotland" meaning resident in or parking in? That isn't clear. That's why I asked.

Frruitcake: No. The keeper and the driver both live in England and NOT in Scotland. The only Scottish thing about this is the location of the car park.

There are no references that identify the driver anywhere on this thread.

... and I explained that bit in my post where I said, "If the event happened in Scotland ..."

bod1467

• Did the parking event happen in Scotland, or does the registered keeper live in Scotland? Yes - IGNORE everything except actual court claim papers
• No other bullets needed

System

Yes - IGNORE everything except actual court claim papers

Which you should frame as they will be valuable one day .... the applicable law is Scots law. The applicable jurisdiction is Scotland. They can't issue a claim in England for a Scots law issue and if they issued a claim in Scotland to an address in England, they'd find a whole host of legislation that rules that out e.g. Pannon GSM Zrt. v Erzs!bet Sustikn! Győrfi [2009]

bod1467

I thought they could technically issue an "out of jurisdiction" claim, but the costs and processes involved don't make it financially worthwhile?