Underpaid unknowingly

rdr

After reviewing the evidence provided by both parties, I am not satisfied that the driver of the vehicle has been identified. However, after reviewing the Notice to Keeper, it is clear that the operator is not seeking keeper liability and therefore, PoFA 2012 does not apply. In this case, the operator is seeking the driver’s liability.

My kids would have ripped that paragraph apart while they were still in primary school.

• We don't know who the driver is
• We are not seeking to enforce keeper liability
• therefore the keeper is liable:eek:

martin2345uk

I don't really understand what they're saying there...

They agree the driver has not been identified
They say the PPC is not seeking to hold the keeper liable
The PPC is seeking the driver's liability?

Eh?

BaBa

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I am sorry but this has GOT to be stamped out! POPLA do not understand the law which is not just emabarrassing, it is a scandal because they are costing consumers money.

You need to complain to 'complaints@popla.org.uk' and you can find other threads about similar issues by searching this forum for that email address as your only search term. I thought the Lead adjudictor's name was John Gallagher?

Then when POPLA reply with some drivel still not understanding keeper liability, you need to send a complaint to Nicola Mullaney at ISPA. Again the other thread have lead the way - copy them, ISPA WILL look into genuine issues like this one where POPLA have failed miserably.

POPLA are failing the public as regards the only (main) poxy law they need to understand!

You do realise NOT to pay, I hope?

Thanks Coupon-mad, and I did some reading yesterday having seen where you had previously advised others to search on those keywords.

I shall be preparing a relatively short and to the point email to the complaints address, FAO Mr. Gallagher, with the expectation if not certainty that I will receive a pre-scripted dismissive response from someone other than himself. ISPA complaint then to follow.

And no, I do not intend to pay and consider the process to be farcical to this point.

BaBa

Umkomaas wrote: »

Another chronic, appalling POPLA decision. Can you give us the name of the Assessor please?

Yes, it is the assessor named in this post:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=70375482&postcount=62

salmosalaris

Why anyone dances to the BPA tune and appeals to POPLA now defeats me .

BaBa

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I am sorry but this has GOT to be stamped out! POPLA do not understand the law which is not just embarrassing, it is a scandal because they are costing consumers money.

You need to complain to 'complaints@popla.org.uk' and you can find other threads about similar issues by searching this forum for that email address as your only search term. I thought the Lead adjudictor's name was John Gallagher?

Then when POPLA reply with some drivel still not understanding keeper liability, you need to send a complaint to Nicola Mullaney at ISPA. Again the other threads have lead the way - copy them, ISPA WILL look into genuine issues like this one where POPLA have failed miserably.

POPLA are failing the public as regards the only (main) poxy law they need to understand!

You do realise NOT to pay, I hope?

A quick update after my complaint email to POPLA is that I've had no response or acknowledgement even from them.

I'm assuming now that the next step is to escalate this complaint to Nicola Mullaney at ISPA. Additionally, is there any evidence yet that ISPA intervene in specific cases, as I've not been able to find any?

Coupon-mad

They can't change a decision but they have 'identified a concern' in some cases and it is important that ISPA see what a dreadful job POPLA are doing with misunderstanding the law.

If you search the parking forum for 'ISPA concern' and choose 'show POSTS' (NOT 'show threads') you should find a couple of recent posts where people have posted what ISPA have come back with...they take 6 - 8 weeks to look at it.

None of this changes anything. You do not have to pay, this decision is wrong. POPLA should have replied if you emailed 'complaints@'?

BaBa

I belatedly received the following response to my complaint to POPLA, which confounds the confusion even further:

Good afternoon

Thank you for contacting POPLA

I note that you wish to make a complaint regarding a decision that was made for verification code 2921086015.

Firstly, I will address your concerns regarding the Notice to Keeper and if the operator complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012.

PoFA 2012 only applies if a parking operator is transferring the liability from the driver of the vehicle to the registered keeper.

I have reviewed the Notice to Keeper and can confirm that at no point does it state that the liability will be transferred to the keeper of the vehicle.

The notice states, "The driver of this vehicle is required to pay this parking charge… if you were not the driver at the time, you should provide us with the name and current postal address of the driver at the time".

This notice clearly states that only the driver of the vehicle is responsible for the payment of this parking charge. As the operator is not intending to transfer the liability, it is not required to meet the requirements of PoFA 2012.

The assessor has refused the appeal, as the driver has not complied with the signage in place at this car park. As such, the driver remains liable for the parking charge.

You have reached the end of our process and there is no opportunity to challenge this decision further.

However, it is not necessarily the end of the process for you and you are able to challenge the parking charge in court if you wish.

Yours sincerely

LB

POPLA Assessor

I'm not sure why I'd want to challenge in court, as keeper, the PCN sent to me when POPLA state several times that the operator is not seeking to transfer liability to the keeper and that liability remains with the driver - identity of whom is not established.

I also don't understand why they stated after my appeal had been refused that I should now pay the charge and can do so via their link on the same page, but are also telling me that the keeper is not liable for the charge and is not required to pay.

Don't know how to make sense of what they're saying now, so will try IPSA though am mindful that they will not directly intervene in this specific case.

Coupon-mad

That's Lauren Bailey.

POPLA are hopeless re the POFA. Clueless right now. Sigh.

Does the penny not drop with someone with a brain at POPLA, that they are TELLING A KEEPER TO PAY, causing loss, effectively saying they are liable for a charge a KEEPER can't be held liable for?!

It must be up to ISPA to sort this in the longer term.

Umkomaas

The assessor has refused the appeal, as the driver has not complied with the signage in place at this car park. As such, the driver remains liable for the parking charge.

If you're inclined to respond, ask them whether they believe that the keeper or the driver should pay this.

You might also ask them to be prepared, that should this go to court, for Lauren Bailey to be asked to appear as a witness to justify the assessment.