We don't believe claim of ignorance by seller

dc197

Hello team
Grateful for your thoughts on this.

We were made aware of a historical structural issue with a house we're buying. We commissioned a surveyor who looked at the original problem from 1997 and confirmed it is fine. We have also since seen another survey done in 2001 confirming the work was successful. That 2001 reports confirms no structural cracks in the house, neither at the original problem's location nor anywhere else.
So that's great news.

However our survey last month also spotted minor cracking to the integral garage wall. On the inside of the single-skinned garage wall the cracks are also visible, and there is evidence that these have been "amateurishly" repaired using polyfilla, which has itself since cracked again.
The surveyor suggests therefore that this cracking is recent and progressive.


We queried it. The vendors, who have lived there since before 1997, claim via their solicitor that they "do not understand (the) reference to progressive structural movement at [the garage], neither are they aware of such problems".

We find this inconsistent - if no crack existed in 2001, and one exists now which has been poorly repaired, they must know about it.

What now?
We would like to know when the garage cracks appeared and when they wire last poly-filled, as this will indicate how progressive the issue is.

Do we insist that they must know about the cracks because they have attempted to repair them? We think that the solicitor will merely repeat the claim that they know nothing.

Do we accept their claim of ignorance?

Or something else?

Thanks

theartfullodger

I don't (knowingly) do business with crooks or cheats: You seem to have found one: I know what I would do...

pinkteapot

How would the seller know if the crack is structural or not? I've polyfilla'd loads of cracks - most plaster has them somewhere as houses all settle slightly.

Even though they did some filling, the seller will just say they didn't know the cause of a crack. Unless you can PROVE they had an expert in who told them it was structural, you won't get anywhere.

This is exactly why you get a survey done - to tell you if there are any problems like this. The important thing now is to decide (1) if you want to proceed with purchase and (2) if so, is it still worth the price you're paying?

Never believe a word a vendor tells you. Always get surveys and any necessary specialist inspections done.

ManuelG

Having checked the DIY board recently standard advice seems to be that filling cracks will see them open up again later, and it's never a permanent fix.

So a filled crack re-opening may well not be structural. The only reason I get paranoid about them nowadays, is after reading this board!!

dc197

Pink tea pot, yes it's a good point that although they know about the crack (see below), they might not think it's structural. Or at least they might claim not to think it's structural.
They have perhaps phrased their answer to the query very well.

I cannot prove when the crack was poly-filled. I am relying on the 2001 report which states no cracks existed, and am inferring (reasonably, I think, but please say if you feel otherwise) that the crack appeared after 2001.

thesaint

There answer seems truthful on the face of it.
They know nothing of structural movement.

AdrianC

Get a specialist in to inspect it and report on it.
Then, based on that, decide whether you want to reduce the offer or walk away.

Who knew what when is utterly irrelevant.

michelle2008

There is a few posts on this board in which people are annoyed at vendors not informing them of maintenance issues with houses.

I would never have relied on home owners structural assessment, rather paid for a structural survey? I thought this was common practice in anything other than a new build?

Indeed for the last house I bought it was the estate agent who did the viewings so I didn't have any contact at all.

I am surprised the poster got solicitors to ask the seller of they knew about the cracks - I don't see the relevance? Surely the point is how much will it cost to fix and can a lower price be negotiated?

dc197

michelle2008 wrote: »

I would never have relied on home owners structural assessment

Nor are we

michelle2008 wrote: »

rather paid for a structural survey

We did, please see above

michelle2008 wrote: »

I am surprised the poster got solicitors to ask the seller of they knew about the cracks

We didn't. We know the sellers know about the cracks because we can see that they have poly-filled them. We asked something along the lines of whether the cracks are the symptoms that provoked an evident repair of the drains nearby (also highlighted by our building survey).

We realise now - thanks to the answers in this thread - that the question we asked was answered truthfully to the letter but not necessarily to the spirit of the question.

Cakeguts

I don't really understand why you are making such a big issue out of this. When you buy a house you have a survey done to see what might need repairing or any problems that might put you off buying the house. There is no reason why the sellers should know about any structural problems that might have occurred to the property since they had their own survey done when they bought the property. Your surveyor found some cracks in the garage. This doesn't mean that the sellers knew that they were structural.

I don't understand what you expect anyone to do about this? Surprises in surveys are part of buying houses that is why you have a survey. What the seller knew or didn't know about their property has got nothing to do with whether you decide to continue to buy the property or walk away and look for another one. You seem to be putting too much importance on what the seller did or didn't know about their property what you need to concentrate on is what your survey has shown up and make up your mind about what you think you want to do.

kingstreet

Why don't people go straight for the (specialist) horse's mouth instead of continually getting another GP's (surveyor's) opinion?

https://www.findanengineer.com

use "surveying:domestic property" and your postcode and it's usually cheaper than paying RICS rates to get the report you actually need.