Crisis loan disputed but now AOE!

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

But if someone had access to the post of a house they can intercept personal documents like benefit letters, or wage slips, bank statements etc all which can be used to get the benefit.

Again, someone steals your documents and makes a false benefit claim. If they use your address, how do they get the money? Where do the letters go? If the money goes into a bank account the DWP would expect it to go into an account in your name. That's not much good to the imposter is it?

Is this imposter going to pretend to be you at the job centre every two weeks? What happens when your NI account is shown as getting NI credits for a JSA claim while it's also receiving the NI contribution for an employee?

Are they going to impersonate you for a claim revolving around not being fit for work...they're impersonating you at your doctor too?

More importantly, what we are talking about are crisis loans. For several years ago, over an extended period as opposed to once or twice.

Typically that's money to get you through to your next income. It was about £5 a day. It's only more if there are dependants. So the imposter needs names and birthdates.
If there were kids on these applications child benefit payment details were needed.

Sometimes the loan is bigger because certain items are involved where someone moves. But then they need proof of a new tenancy.

Crisis loans are about health risk. So the applicant will need information about the health of the person they are impersonating.

Most commonly, benefits were already involved. What the imposter says is checked. So they need to know the payment details.

If it's not benefits, then it's going to be wages. So now they need the collusion of an employer or the ability to fake that. But they also need something from a bank because if it's an employee, a bank loan or overdraft or credit card will be an alternative to a crisis loan, so the applicant/imposter needs to prove it's not available.

If the victim has a genuine claim going, then the notices about recovery from benefits will go to him. He will wonder why his money has gone down and this will reveal that someone has applied for a loan in his name.

If it's a series of loans, which is what is usually alleged on these forums, then there will have been a series of letters about them.

There is a whole load of cross matching that will highlight contradictions in NI records, addresses used, which benefits are in payment. Tons of stuff.

The level of knowledge required for multiple applications...the number of letters never seen....for most of the times these threads happen with the size of the debts and the number of applications involved...just not feasible that the victim knows nothing about it.

dekaspace

The OP has not stated if they were on benefits at the time, and we are unsure what the loans are for, you don't have much knowledge of how the system worked back then.

13 years ago when I was sanctioned I got crisis loans pretty much weekly and one time I had bank charges that swallowed up the entire lot so had a one off like £70 payment from crisis loans as well as the weekly ones that were £20-£30 a time put it this way I only paid off a few years ago.

£1000 was the total limit so its possible the person kept applying till they hit the limit or there abouts or thought it was a risk.

The claims were either on the phone or in person depending on where you lived, if over the phone then all that was needed was some id like a bank statment and bank card, a neighbour of mine had a card and cheque book stolen but they thought they were just lost in post so got a new one.

If the person lived at same property it would be easy to intercept letters relating to the debt and get id used to collect it.

All we have been told is the debts are from 15 years ago not they were spread out over 15 years.

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

The OP has not stated if they were on benefits at the time,

That would be why my post covered benefits or some other income.

and we are unsure what the loans are for,

That would be why I referred to loans for living expenses or other costs.

you don't have much knowledge of how the system worked back then.

Apart from several years doing the job at the time in question.

The loans are stated to be 15 years ago. 2001, correct?
I worked for DWP for over 30 years to 2004. For a few years I was involved in helping to complete the forms as well as checking background information and for about 6 years to 2002 I was deciding them.

If the person lived at same property it would be easy to intercept letters relating to the debt and get id used to collect it.

:rotfl::rotfl:

Yes, even if they had access to the property every single time a letter was issued they just happened to know exactly when the mail was arriving so they could get it. No other commitments or anything, always free to get hold of the mail.

All we have been told is the debts are from 15 years ago not they were spread out over 15 years.

I didn't say they were spread out over 15 years. The very nature of a crisis though is not something that happens in succession over a short period.

I'm clearly wasting my time here and I'm obviously not going to convince you.

Edited to add: Incidentally, there is another thread on this from 3 years ago. There is reference to 9 loans between 2001 and 2004. Initially the OP says they only took out one. Later in the thread the stance is changed somewhat to not remembering most.

konark

Welcome to the modern world, where Government agencies can decide you owe them money and just take it from you without any recourse to the courts, or even have to prove their allegations.

missapril75

konark wrote: »

Welcome to the modern world, where Government agencies can decide you owe them money and just take it from you without any recourse to the courts, or even have to prove their allegations.

So to sum up: person or persons unknown, between 2001 and 2004 made up to 8 applications for loans knowing enough about the OP's financial and family circumstances to satisfy the DWP as to the accuracy of that information throughout that period, was able to successfully impersonate thm - just happened to be of a similar age and same sex - and was able to collect the payments from the office, satisfying potentially a dozen or more staff members that they were, in fact, the OP because being similar age and same sex they also had documentation for their ID.

And not only this, every letter issued in respect of all these payments and every letter issued as a result of non repayment of these loans was somehow never seen by the OP, with someone somehow intercepting every single one of them over a period spanning the 4 years covering the applications and then during the further 7 years after the last one.

I have a bridge to sell. It will treble it's value in 3 months. Would you like to buy it?

dekaspace

missapril75 wrote: »

That would be why my post covered benefits or some other income.
That would be why I referred to loans for living expenses or other costs.
Apart from several years doing the job at the time in question.

The loans are stated to be 15 years ago. 2001, correct?
I worked for DWP for over 30 years to 2004. For a few years I was involved in helping to complete the forms as well as checking background information and for about 6 years to 2002 I was deciding them.
:rotfl::rotfl:

Yes, even if they had access to the property every single time a letter was issued they just happened to know exactly when the mail was arriving so they could get it. No other commitments or anything, always free to get hold of the mail.

I didn't say they were spread out over 15 years. The very nature of a crisis though is not something that happens in succession over a short period.

I'm clearly wasting my time here and I'm obviously not going to convince you.

Edited to add: Incidentally, there is another thread on this from 3 years ago. There is reference to 9 loans between 2001 and 2004. Initially the OP says they only took out one. Later in the thread the stance is changed somewhat to not remembering most.

So in other words as you have some experience you think you know everything.

I think you believe you are so overconfident of your own experience you think thats the only point of view since you ignore a lot of things.

Just like you ignored OP thinking it was in shared accomodation, can't you put 2 and 2 together and think maybe if they lived in same property they knew what time the postman arrived, if OP was working and the person not they had hours of access to the letters/

Is my EXPERIENCE of identity fraud and also the differences in the system different social security offices did somehow invalid as you had a different one?

Did you ever think people get crisis loans when theres not a crisis? Why defend the DWP when its a flawed organisation, when I had a giro stolen they kept "losing" forms and then claiming I never handed them in, after a few weeks had to get a MP involved, when a friend lost his job they lost 2 P45s and rudely claimed he never handed them in.

In one town I did the whole thing on phone as they were swamped then just showed "id" at the social security office, another place was make a appointment for next day then get a face to face so everywhere is different, nowadays its all phone.

I had a giro cashed by someone forging a letter in my name and saying I "authorised" someone else to sign for me, despite having CCTV evidence the DWP did nothing and had to get police involved who themselves did nothing, after the MP got me a new giro I got a letter from DWP saying I was paid twice (as the system does it) and they were taking like £60 from my next payment to pay it back (and more off next)

So despite things being in place it never ends up that way, people play the system.

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

So in other words as you have some experience you think you know everything.

How silly that would be.

Just like you ignored OP thinking it was in shared accomodation,

Eh? I specifically addressed that when I made a comment about someone being able to intercept all that mail and knowing when it would arrive. (it's not always at the same time) Did you not see that bit?

Did you not see my comment about how that person had no other commitments in life that they were always at home and ready to get to someone else's mail over the period in question?

That must be 4 or 5 things you have mistakenly said I've not addressed when in fact I have.

Did you ever think people get crisis loans when theres not a crisis?

Of course. In my experience most of them were not genuine and they could be proven to be not genuine very quickly.

The more realistic the 'story' along with accurate information about the financial and family circumstances - do you know the birthdates of your next door neighbours, who they work for or what benefits they get or what their health conditions are and the dates and amounts of their income/wages? - the better the chance of getting a payment.

So for so many applications succeeding, the information has probably been quite good and accurate.

The DWP is not without its faults. But in this case - for the reasons I have stated - especially in the summing up response I gave to Konark - it's more likely the OP has lost track or colluded.

Your isolated examples are quite different to the whole series of improbable occurrences on this case.

Maybe I should hold an auction for that bridge. Bids starting at £750,000.

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

So in other words as you have some experience you think you know everything.

You've changed your tune. Your previous post said I had no experience. Now I have too much. :rotfl:

dekaspace

missapril75 wrote: »

How silly that would be.
Eh? I specifically addressed that when I made a comment about someone being able to intercept all that mail and knowing when it would arrive. (it's not always at the same time) Did you not see that bit?

Did you not see my comment about how that person had no other commitments in life that they were always at home and ready to get to someone else's mail over the period in question?

That must be 4 or 5 things you have mistakenly said I've not addressed when in fact I have.

Of course. In my experience most of them were not genuine and they could be proven to be not genuine very quickly.

The more realistic the 'story' along with accurate information about the financial and family circumstances - do you know the birthdates of your next door neighbours, who they work for or what benefits they get or what their health conditions are and the dates and amounts of their income/wages? - the better the chance of getting a payment.

So for so many applications succeeding, the information has probably been quite good and accurate.

The DWP is not without its faults. But in this case - for the reasons I have stated - especially in the summing up response I gave to Konark - it's more likely the OP has lost track or colluded.

Your isolated examples are quite different to the whole series of improbable occurrences on this case.

Maybe I should hold an auction for that bridge. Bids starting at £750,000.

Isolated examples that happened 9 years apart, have happened to other people I know, yet somehow as you think yours is more likely then you see that as the truth.

If the person commiting the fraud wasn't working then of course they would have access to letterbox facilities all the time especially if they knew the timeframe post arrived every day.

Why are you ignoring a lot of information is rather easily obtained such as bank statements, NI number if they are/were on benefits at some point, birthdays can be worked out from family letters and other such things.

Then the OP could of innocently talked to their housemates about their work, or mentioned they were going out as its pay day or they were skint as they don't get paid much and/or work short hours.

It could be the OP is lying but your attitude is automatic "its a lie" because it doesn't make sense to you which is very arrogant of you.

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

Isolated examples that happened 9 years apart, have happened to other people I know,

I'm sure they have. Me too. But we're not talking about isolated examples are we. It's EIGHT times according to the OP. You seem to have great difficulty comprehending the difference.

That's 8 times the imposter gave a convincing story based on who was on the application, last income, next income, answered the questions about the circumstances, answered the points that would have been raised about prior applications, none of which had been paid back.

And then satisfied up to a dozen staff members as to their identity because their sex and age matched the applicant.

If the person commiting the fraud wasn't working then of course they would have access to letterbox facilities all the time especially if they knew the timeframe post arrived every day.

IF they knew the time of delivery and that delivery time never changed over the 11 years that letters were issued.
And if they never moved (or they did but they always moved so as to share the same address with the same access to the other person's mail).

And all the time knowing exactly when to look out for the letters about the loans and never once being ill in bed or unable to get to the mail over the 11 years in question.

Quite remarkable how this imposter of the same sex and same age managed to live in the same address all that time.

Why are you ignoring a lot of information is rather easily obtained such as bank statements, NI number if they are/were on benefits at some point, birthdays can be worked out from family letters and other such things.

Ah, so now this person is actually intercepting every item of mail, going through family letters and birthday cards and accessing all the other documents without them knowing. I see. Are you really that gullible?

Seen any fairies at the bottom of your garden lately? :rotfl: