Unexpected request to confirm tax residency - Halifax

EdSwippet

booksurr wrote: »

... before she returns "the letter" and draws attention to herself?

For completeness it's worth noting that this ship has probably sailed. HSBC generally won't send "the letter" unless they already suspect US citizenship. And once suspected, they have to report the account to the US unless they get positive confirmation of non-US citizenship. In other words, not responding probably won't be enough at this point to stay below the radar.

Renouncing one's US citizenship has become a lot more zeitgeisty since FATCA passed into law in 2010. This is unlikely to be a coincidence.

tracey97

moved response

tracey97

krzysztow wrote: »

Some of you guys described this letter as unclear and written in a strange way- I feel the same, still trying to understand what is the point of it.
But the only problem is, I need to reply by December 15th; the letter is in UK and I'm in Poland (my family sent me photos of it). And it needs my signature. So I am looking on Internet for a blank form to print it here, sign it and send to Lloyds.
I've been googling for some time but I can't find it.
If anyone knows where I can download this form I would be grateful. Thanks

if you have internet banking, try looking in notifications - thats where mine was and you can 'electronically' sign it

badmemory

EdSwippet wrote: »

For completeness it's worth noting that this ship has probably sailed. HSBC generally won't send "the letter" unless they already suspect US citizenship..

This may be true of HSBC but is certainly not true of Halifax and I believe of LLoyds.

badmemory

HSBC are running scared having been fined large amounts for their various shortcomings. They are all just ticking boxes in some manic fashion to avoid being included in the "we are American so we can fine who we like" group.

ZoeGM

I recieved the same letter, from Lloyds, and no form attached. I'm not british and it also mentions my nationality. After reading that most of you think that's scam I compared the letter to others from Lloyds. The paper is different, it's poorly printed in b/w, the address is Lloyds Bank plc, Bristol, BX1 1LT, and even the date is written slightly different from the usual Lloyds letters. I told my friends who are from the same country as me, and also Lloyds clients, and never recieved the letter. I've recently moved to a different house so I got the letter a couple of days later because it's addressed to my old address, but I've been asking for any other letters for me, because that form isn't enclosed. But I haven't received any other letter. I've also googled the form with no results. Also checked my notifications online just in case, but they don't mention this letter.

Sooo I'll wait for them to send me the second letter and see what happens. Even if I wanted to send the form there's no way I can have it. And if they wanted people to fill this form they would upload a blank one if you need another cause you haven't received one or you lost it or got damaged.

EdSwippet

badmemory wrote: »

This may be true of HSBC but is certainly not true of Halifax and I believe of LLoyds.

Yup, that's another component of the frustration here.

Under the FATCA 'intergovernmental agreement' banks are only required to act on a suspicion of US-ness, triggered by indicia(*) such as US place of birth, wiring money to US accounts, US phone number, and so on. HSBC appears to be doing this. On the other hand, Halifax/Lloyds appear to be simply polling either their entire customer base or some totally random subset of it.

Once 'convicted' of US-ness, it's not even clear what happens then. Under the agreement the bank has to send interest, balance, and other information to HMRC who then forward it on to the IRS as part of a neat end-run around UK and EU data privacy laws. What is the timescale on this? Are you told what of your private information was sent out, either by the bank or by HMRC? What happens to the data when it has left the UK? What protections does this UK data have once the US has got hold of it? Nobody seems to know.

(*) Notice here how the US employs the language of the witch-hunt. Appropriate, though.

booksurr

ZoeGM wrote: »

I recieved the same letter, from Lloyds, and no form attached. I'm not british and it also mentions my nationality. After reading that most of you think that's scam I compared the letter to others from Lloyds. The paper is different, it's poorly printed in b/w, the address is Lloyds Bank plc, Bristol, BX1 1LT, and even the date is written slightly different from the usual Lloyds letters. I told my friends who are from the same country as me, and also Lloyds clients, and never recieved the letter. I've recently moved to a different house so I got the letter a couple of days later because it's addressed to my old address, but I've been asking for any other letters for me, because that form isn't enclosed. But I haven't received any other letter. I've also googled the form with no results. Also checked my notifications online just in case, but they don't mention this letter.

Sooo I'll wait for them to send me the second letter and see what happens. Even if I wanted to send the form there's no way I can have it. And if they wanted people to fill this form they would upload a blank one if you need another cause you haven't received one or you lost it or got damaged.

i agree that without the form there is nothing you can do but to say you have been scammed is just wrong. How would you be scammed if you return a letter to a known Lloyds bank address? Do you think someone is in their mail room intercepting letters?

Lloyds Bank plc, Bristol, BX1 1LT can be checked in seconds on google as a perfectly valid, known, Lloyds address. Lots of companies have what is technically called a "non geographic" address, ie postcode only, without a street name. That particular one is used by LLoyds, including by its customer services dept !

as to the paper quality and printing you agree you are a Lloyds customer and that they had your (by the sounds of it very) recent address - the rest is simply a question of them saving a bit of money by using "cheap" paper drafting a letter which is not going to bring them any additional income so hardly needs to comply with corporate branding images

lisa110rry

EdSwippet wrote: »

Yup, that's another component of the frustration here.

Under the FATCA 'intergovernmental agreement' banks are only required to act on a suspicion of US-ness, triggered by indicia(*) such as US place of birth, wiring money to US accounts, US phone number, and so on. HSBC appears to be doing this. On the other hand, Halifax/Lloyds appear to be simply polling either their entire customer base or some totally random subset of it.

Once 'convicted' of US-ness, it's not even clear what happens then. Under the agreement the bank has to send interest, balance, and other information to HMRC who then forward it on to the IRS as part of a neat end-run around UK and EU data privacy laws. What is the timescale on this? Are you told what of your private information was sent out, either by the bank or by HMRC? What happens to the data when it has left the UK? What protections does this UK data have once the US has got hold of it? Nobody seems to know.

(*) Notice here how the US employs the language of the witch-hunt. Appropriate, though.

At least they use the correct term "US" rather than "American", annoys the life out of Canadians when people get it wrong!

I have now taken professional advice on this and it seems I should have been completing form 2555 (Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - FEIE) and as I earn less than $100,000 per annum I am exempt.

However, in fact it is not me who has received "the letter" but rather my son, so we will need to discuss at length before he deals with it.

badmemory

booksurr wrote: »

Lloyds Bank plc, Bristol, BX1 1LT can be checked in seconds on google as a perfectly valid, known, Lloyds address. Lots of companies have what is technically called a "non geographic" address, ie postcode only, without a street name. That particular one is used by LLoyds, including by its customer services dept !

It may be valid but it is not the address they were using when this thread was first started. Also the bank did not recognise the phone number on the original letter as one of theirs.