Who should get compensation for delayed trains paid for by work?

penguingirl

Just a bit of a moral/ ethical dilemma that has been mooted in my house. My partner and I had this discussion this morning as his train was cancelled and co-incidentally I was briefly on the later train he got for 1 stop. So we got to have a very romantic breakfast at Crewe and this was one of the conversations!

If work have paid for train tickets (as expenses to a different base/ meeting etc) and the train is significantly delayed, who should get the compensation? The discussion came up as we talked about that if he was late home (he travels after normal working hours) then the only person inconvenienced is him. I think travelling to work/ a meeting is less clear as you are late on work 'time', although again his situation this morning it's less clear as he was travelling prior to his 'official' working hours and works whilst on the train. It came up particularly as Virgin do automatic refunds now (although his provider wasn't Virgin), and the provided he was with (Arriva Wales) provides rail vouchers as standard and will only refund cash via the original purchase method, which in his case would be his work's travel agents.

I know a couple of years ago my dad got stranded in London whilst doing some self-employed work due to heavy winds/ storms (possibly end of 2013?). He stayed overnight with a family member, and was permitted to use his tickets the next day so didn't really occur extra costs but was entitled to a full refund of his return ticket (with virgin). When he claimed compensation he didn't pass it on to the company who was paying for his expenses as his attitude was that they had their meeting/ service as the planned time and weren't inconvenienced by his inability to get home, instead it was him who spent a night on a sofa in my brother's flat.

To me this makes sense, but legally I'm not sure where it stands? Is it a grey area as it is compensation for the inconvenience, rather than a refund for an inadequate service? Any thoughts?

elsien

Brother's company claim the compensation as they have paid for the ticket in the first place. Having talked to other commuters, it varies between companies. Some aren't bothered, others are stricter about it. It's less a legal issue and more a company policy one if anyone's wanting to avoid a potential disciplinary.

penguingirl

That makes sense- so in my Dad's example as self-employed he was completely clear to claim it as it was an expense of his self-employed work (although also jammy as it was a much more expensive ticket than he would have paid for had he not been claiming expenses from his customer!)

In my partner's case it seems like there is more discretion. It is hypothetical before today as he has never claimed for a delayed train with this employer- my guess is he'll run it by his boss and they'll give him the clear to claim it as they are pretty reasonable. If I worked for a company that took the refund I'd be definitely making sure I took any resulting time owing if I got home late!

also quick google seems to indicate majority view is it is compensation for the inconvenience/ time and should generally go to whoever's time you wasted http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=111223 so in my partner's situation both his initial train and his later delayed train were in his 'own' time as were before his standard working hours started.

wealdroam

penguingirl wrote: »

Just a bit of a moral/ ethical dilemma that has been mooted in my house. My partner and I had this discussion this morning as his train was cancelled and co-incidentally I was briefly on the later train he got for 1 stop. So we got to have a very romantic breakfast at Crewe and this was one of the conversations!

If work have paid for train tickets (as expenses to a different base/ meeting etc) and the train is significantly delayed, who should get the compensation? The discussion came up as we talked about that if he was late home (he travels after normal working hours) then the only person inconvenienced is him. I think travelling to work/ a meeting is less clear as you are late on work 'time', although again his situation this morning it's less clear as he was travelling prior to his 'official' working hours and works whilst on the train. It came up particularly as Virgin do automatic refunds now (although his provider wasn't Virgin), and the provided he was with (Arriva Wales) provides rail vouchers as standard and will only refund cash via the original purchase method, which in his case would be his work's travel agents.

I know a couple of years ago my dad got stranded in London whilst doing some self-employed work due to heavy winds/ storms (possibly end of 2013?). He stayed overnight with a family member, and was permitted to use his tickets the next day so didn't really occur extra costs but was entitled to a full refund of his return ticket (with virgin). When he claimed compensation he didn't pass it on to the company who was paying for his expenses as his attitude was that they had their meeting/ service as the planned time and weren't inconvenienced by his inability to get home, instead it was him who spent a night on a sofa in my brother's flat.

To me this makes sense, but legally I'm not sure where it stands? Is it a grey area as it is compensation for the inconvenience, rather than a refund for an inadequate service? Any thoughts?

Just looking at your last paragraph... it's not really a grey area at all.

If you have not paid for a ticket, which is effectively what has happened if you receive a refund, how can you justify claiming for that expense from your employer?

penguingirl

wealdroam wrote: »

Just looking at your last paragraph... it's not really a grey area at all.

If you have not paid for a ticket, which is effectively what has happened if you receive a refund, how can you justify claiming for that expense from your employer?

It's not a refund, it's compensation- which is why I think (and apparently others as I linked to elsewhere) that it is a grey area.

wealdroam

penguingirl wrote: »

It's not a refund, it's compensation- which is why I think (and apparently others as I linked to elsewhere) that it is a grey area.

OK, I'm sorry you don't like my use of the word 'refund'.

Can I just point out that you used the word 'refund' as many times in your original post as you used the word 'compensation'?

penguingirl

wealdroam wrote: »

OK, I'm sorry you don't like my use of the word 'refund'.

Can I just point out that you used the word 'refund' as many times in your original post as you used the word 'compensation'?

It's not that I don't like it- it's just not the word any of the train companies use so I was interested in opinions about whether it was legally different. And yes I know I used it, probably because it intuitively feels like a 'refund' in the traditional sense. And I guess I don't know what else I'd call an automatic repayment back to the card that paid for tickets? I wasn't meaning to be antagonistic, just genuinely interested in the consensus on this one

magyar

I had a similar example only it was air rather than rail. I was flying back from a business trip and my flight was overbooked: the airline offered €200 compensation plus a seat on the next flight to anyone agreeing to be bumped. This was paid in cash (to me, at the desk).

To my mind, this was compensating me for being delayed; the company had agreed to pay whatever the original ticket had cost to get me from A to B, which had happened. So I didn't feel any moral issue with keeping the money.

martinbuckley

magyar wrote: »

I had a similar example only it was air rather than rail. I was flying back from a business trip and my flight was overbooked: the airline offered €200 compensation plus a seat on the next flight to anyone agreeing to be bumped. This was paid in cash (to me, at the desk).

Key words in bold. The meeting had finished and you were then delayed into your own time. As long as you were back at your place of work at the right time on the right day, then you were perfectly entitled to accept the offer.

NBLondon

I've had this a few times. The travel agent my employer uses apparently has no mechanism for claiming the refund or to use the vouchers I get if I claim. So I claim them, keep them in my desk drawer and use them to buy first class upgrades on later trips. Since the travel policy says I can't go first class (even when there is a cheaper promotional fare) - I think that's a morally fair exchange.

runningben16

This happens to our work in the form of delayed or.overbooked flights, where cash compensation is offered by the airlines. The view amongst me and colleagues is that we keep the cash, as we're the ones being inconvenienced. I'm always open with my boss when I get cash, so my conscience is clear that I've told the company.
We work for a multinational that doesn't handle cash, and so if I was to go to the travel manager with a fistful of euros they wouldn't have any way of dealing with it anyway.