UK current account deficit at new high

Mistermeaner

Tromking wrote: »

Safe, decent and secure prisons are a political choice I agree.

Do you also agree budgets need to balance?

Where are safe prisons in the list of stuff to spend money on?

Tromking

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Do you also agree budgets need to balance?

Where are safe prisons in the list of stuff to spend money on?

Fairly high up the list, I think it was Churchill who said that the measure of a civilised country is the way it treats its criminals. A balanced budget and decent prisons are not mutually exclusive in my view. A hefty cut in the overseas aid budget would be my choice if we`re talking about diverting funds from one budget to another.

Mistermeaner

I can think of many better things to spend money on than prisoners and churchill was wrong about lots of stuff

chewmylegoff

Tromking wrote: »

Self-inflicted deaths and homicides look to be rising at a exponential rate to me. What am I missing?

Data that supports your interpretation is the only thing missing, don't let that stop you though!

Tromking

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Data that supports your interpretation is the only thing missing, don't let that stop you though!

Really?
From a 15 year low of 58 in 2010 self inflicted deaths have risen to 88 in 2015. Murders in prisons have never been higher.

Tromking

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I can think of many better things to spend money on than prisoners and churchill was wrong about lots of stuff

That`s ok, this Government obviously feels the same as you. I happen to disagree with the scale of cuts being applied to the MOJ budget that`s all.

chewmylegoff

Tromking wrote: »

Really?
From a 15 year low of 58 in 2010 self inflicted deaths have risen to 88 in 2015. Murders in prisons have never been higher.

Yeah if you ignore the overall trend line taking into account all of the data and just pick the best possible data points to support your argument and disregard the rest then I suppose you can make it show whatever you want (eg the number of suicides in 2013, 14, 15 is flat desoite significant cuts biting across that period).

Clearly with such a low number of homicides you are going to get anomalies, but the 8 last year is no more of an outlier than 6 in 1998 (when the prison population was about 3/4 of what it currently is...).

Tromking

The overall trend line for suicides for me is downward till 2010 and then with the on set of budget cuts a sharp rise.The trend line for murders is up also. Perhaps the 38% rise in violent assaults on prison staff last year may convince you of our increasingly basket case prison system?

mwpt

Tromking wrote: »

The overall trend line for suicides for me is downward till 2010 and then with the on set of budget cuts a sharp rise.The trend line for murders is up also. Perhaps the 38% rise in violent assaults on prison staff last year may convince you of our increasingly basket case prison system?

When a country has a sustained deficit that is higher than GDP growth, something has to give. If you spend more on prisons then perhaps we need to close more libraries or remove some mobility scooters or let more people in Africa die. These are not straight forward choices and human beings somewhere have to make them. It is easy for you to choose an issue that is close to your heart and ping the current government for it, but it may be different if you were the one having to make the choices.

Tromking

mwpt wrote: »

When a country has a sustained deficit that is higher than GDP growth, something has to give. If you spend more on prisons then perhaps we need to close more libraries or remove some mobility scooters or let more people in Africa die. These are not straight forward choices and human beings somewhere have to make them. It is easy for you to choose an issue that is close to your heart and ping the current government for it, but it may be different if you were the one having to make the choices.

You make a valid point.
There is more than one way to deal with the deficit of course, subjecting public services to 10 years and rising of rationalisation (it was originally 5 years of course) is one way and appears to be not working as Osborne would want, hence his reputation is tanking.
Any idiot can reduce the public service headcount and impose a wage freeze on the overworked and stressed staff that remain. Perhaps a more nuanced approach involving higher taxes is needed. As an aside, I'm meeting a colleague for coffee this morning who for an 8hr shift at the weekend sat by a hospital bed and took £450 out of the Oxfordshire NHS budget. No one wants to be a Prison Officer in the south east apparently.