Aviva/Norwich Union Section 32 Buyout policy holders?

towag

DaveMcG wrote: »

towag - s32s were regulated investments post 1988, so are in the FOS remit.

Occupational schemes weren't specifically regulated under the various financial services Acts.

The PO area is when the issue is an administrative one although it is a regulated pension policy. There is obviously a lot of potential for overlap between the Ombudsmen in this area.

Thanks DaveMcG.... Learn something new each day... I think my chances of getting anywhere will be with the POS.... Like Anthony Harris's Policy, there is no statement on mine of any kind of opt out indicating that Aviva have no obligation to pay out... I have nothing to lose at present except possibly 5 years backdated pension...

persistancepaysoff

Like Anthony Harris's Policy, there is no statement on mine of any kind of opt out indicating that Aviva have no obligation to pay out..

Quite right TOWAGG. Persist with what you are doing.

My complaint to the POS was based on the way Aviva administered my policy. They were taking actions outside of what was written. It was not a financial advice issue and therefore the FOS was not the appropriate avenue of complaint. It is easy to let an unnecessary ' smokescreen of advice' misdirect you.
This is basically an issue of Contract Law. The original contract must prevail unless both parties agree to a variation. Only what is written in a contract can be taken into account. See my PO determination for Ombudsman's thoughts here. He agreed with me!!

dunstonh

Do not mistake discussion for misdirection

towag

dunstonh wrote: »

Do not mistake discussion for misdirection

Misdirection in which latterly Aviva seem quite infamous for?

towag

After the mounting controversy of a growing number of Aviva section 32 holders now being paid out from the age of 60, as was originally intended and expected, with the possibly of yet more to come (once this all gets out) and the word spreads. I wonder if all those who took out these plans now regret having done so? Would they all have been better off leaving them in their respective pension funds???

waterstar

towag wrote: »

I wonder if all those who took out these plans now regret having done so? Would they all have been better off leaving them in their respective pension funds???

I am not involved in the pensions industry and i defer to the many experts i see writing on this forum, my only interest is as a s32 policy holder.

I suggest most, if not almost all, would " have been better off leaving them in their respective pension funds ".

My understanding is that there are many reasons which contribute to this difference in outcome, including:

1. mis-selling when the policy was taken out, for which some policies holders have received redress from their IFAs around about 10 years or so ago
2. dramatic changes on the inflation and rates of return landscape from when these policies were typically taken out circa 1990,
3. possibly poor performance relative to market from Aviva in the management of its with profits funds
4. significant changes in life expectancy

My sense is that mis-selling, which arguably includes that the individual opting to leave a company pension scheme should have been fully informed by their IFA that they were giving up reasonable certainty in a Company Scheme and taking on the risks associated with points two, three and four above, is a major contributor to the calculation underlying any assessment that they would " have been better off leaving them in their respective pension funds ".

dunstonh

towag wrote: »

After the mounting controversy of a growing number of Aviva section 32 holders now being paid out from the age of 60, as was originally intended and expected, with the possibly of yet more to come (once this all gets out) and the word spreads. I wonder if all those who took out these plans now regret having done so? Would they all have been better off leaving them in their respective pension funds???

They probably should regret it in a great number of cases. This is why they were all offered reviews around 1993-1998 under the pension review. That ship has long sailed.

tempus_fugit

I took out my s32 in 1995 because I was made redundant and could no longer participate in the company scheme. I was persuaded that the scheme I entered (now with Phoenix/NPI) was the best scheme to put the money into. I was not, as far as I can remember, aware that I might have to wait until 65 to take the pension, albeit at a pretty good guaranteed rate. I always thought I would receive it at age 60 and indeed the policy does state this, but it is only when you drill down further that you see that this is only if the policy has performed well enough to pay the GMP. I only really became aware of this recently and whilst I probably should have read these terms earlier I did not as I was not really aware of them. I was not aware of the reviews in 1990s but to be honest I wouldn't have known back then that my policy was a "section 32 buy-out". Probably not much I can do about it now though.

towag

dunstonh wrote: »

They probably should regret it in a great number of cases. This is why they were all offered reviews around 1993-1998 under the pension review. That ship has long sailed.

Yet I received nothing from Aviva explaining any pension review at the time.... I would have read and kept them in my folders ... I would think that anyone like myself who was self employed was far too busy working their buts off to earn a decent crust, so would not have heard or even know about it....

towag

tempus_fugit wrote: »

I took out my s32 in 1995 because I was made redundant and could no longer participate in the company scheme. I was persuaded that the scheme I entered (now with Phoenix/NPI) was the best scheme to put the money into. I was not, as far as I can remember, aware that I might have to wait until 65 to take the pension, albeit at a pretty good guaranteed rate. I always thought I would receive it at age 60 and indeed the policy does state this, but it is only when you drill down further that you see that this is only if the policy has performed well enough to pay the GMP. I only really became aware of this recently and whilst I probably should have read these terms earlier I did not as I was not really aware of them. I was not aware of the reviews in 1990s but to be honest I wouldn't have known back then that my policy was a "section 32 buy-out". Probably not much I can do about it now though.

Have you written to Phoenix/NPI and challenged it? Does it say anywhere in your policy that they can opt out of paying your pension from 60? Read it carefully, you may surprise yourself and even get your pension backdated till 60.... If you don't try you will never know... What do you have to lose? Possibly quite a nice sum of money previous to your gmp if it is as good as you say it is....