Debate House Prices
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The Next Nail in the Coffin
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So BTL Landlords are having imposed on them:
- Higher SDLT
- Higher CGT
- Effectively increased income taxes (can't imagine that there are vast numbers of BTL Landlords that are Kosher that aren't paying a higher rate of income tax)
- Stricter limits on housing benefits (please let's not try to pretend that HB isn't a huge subsidy to the BTL market as a whole!)
Now there are going to be limits on borrowing as well.
It feels like the only tax that hasn't been increased (or not decreased) selectively on BTL LLs is VAT and excise duty!
It feels a lot like an all-out attack on BTL-ism to me, probably with the aim of increasing owner occupation. It seems obvious to me: if a BTL LL can't afford to own the house because his taxes go up then he'll become a forced seller or not be able to enter the market in the first place. In the short term that means an increase in supply to the OO market although in the long term probably lower supply overall as fewer new-builds are put up.
TBH I'm not sure who is right between you and cells, ATM I now slightly on the side of cells, in that it is merely a tax grab.
Everyone seems to overlook the loss of the wear and tear allowance, believe me, that was significant.
But I don't think that many existing landlords will suffer, those that do, well it is unfortunate for them, but that is the risk that they decided to take on (or overlooked). But I don't think the picture is all that bleak for most existing landlords, but as a soon to get out landlord, I don't include myself in that group (although my wife is).Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
chucknorris wrote: »But your reasoning is completely bonkers:
Yes you have been telling me that for a very long time, I've probably made significant capital gains, since you started telling me. Whereas if I had got out then and invested my equity in shares, I would be suffering significant losses.
I've definitely made significant rental profit (over and above the dividend income that I would have otherwise made) since then.
If I got out when you did, I wouldn't be able to retire this summer.
You don`t make losses in tracker funds until you actually cash them in, if you still believe in the markets coming back at various points in the future dips are your opportunity, they are easier to cash in than property as well. You have made PAPER gains in property, you have yet to realise these gains, this could prove to be much more difficult than cashing out of shares (trackers for example) if things start to wobble. If you had sold up before you would likely have hit the top of the biggest property bubble in UK history, and would have been very cash rich, in fact with multiple London properties to sell you could have retired MANY summers ago. Basically I wonder why you can be bothered with all this nonsense about timing your exit, it has been a bubble on a bubble for years, you should have cashed in by now IMO, even a load of cash in the bank (in a global deflation phase) would give you a lifestyle better than being a landlord, again IMO.0 -
Is there any evidence on the ground of this wobble in prices yet? Or perhaps just longer listing to sales times because locally just outside London we are seeing probably the strongest spring possibly since before 2008 with properties put on at 'speculative' prices selling quickly throughout the size levels and anything over 3 beds is definitely not BTL as returns are much to low.I think....0
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Crashy_Time wrote: »You don`t make losses in tracker funds until you actually cash them in, if you still believe in the markets coming back at various points in the future dips are your opportunity, they are easier to cash in than property as well. You have made PAPER gains in property, you have yet to realise these gains, this could prove to be much more difficult than cashing out of shares (trackers for example) if things start to wobble. If you had sold up before you would likely have hit the top of the biggest property bubble in UK history, and would have been very cash rich, in fact with multiple London properties to sell you could have retired MANY summers ago. Basically I wonder why you can be bothered with all this nonsense about timing your exit, it has been a bubble on a bubble for years, you should have cashed in by now IMO, even a load of cash in the bank (in a global deflation phase) would give you a lifestyle better than being a landlord, again IMO.
I am obviously talking about nominal values, our property has gone up a fair bit (from July 2014, when you first replied to a post of mine), but any shares that we invested in would have fallen since then, by over £340k, when you add the property gain, and the rental income gain, we are talking about £640k that I am better off by staying in property since you first replied to one of my posts).
I already have about £650k in trackers Crashy, it isn't as if I don't know what they are.
I already retired when I was 42 (16 years ago), I went back to work 6 years ago because I wanted to, not because I had to.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
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chucknorris wrote: »I am obviously talking about nominal values, my property has gone up a bit (from July 2014, when you first replied to a post of mine), but any shares I invested in would have fallen since then, by over £200k.
I already have about £650k in trackers Crashy, it isn't as if I don't know what they are.
I already retired when I was 42 (16 years ago), I went back to work 6 years ago because I wanted to, not because I had to.
Why don`t you cash them in and enjoy yourself, instead of posting on here every day?0 -
No idea. People accepting longer commutes perhaps or maybe an increase in lodging.
Perhaps the better off in a group of friends buy a place and rent to the others.
Maybe young people live with their parents for longer.
Maybe other means for increasing housing density (house conversion to flats for example) rises.
Maybe the builders will build some extra houses........nah, that would just be silly.
Maybe prices will just crash, that would be a lot easier really than most of the above?0 -
Crashy_Time wrote: »Why don`t you cash them in and enjoy yourself, instead of posting on here every day?
I am enjoying myself, I don't actually post on here every day, on the days that I do post here, I might spend about a net hour, maybe 2 at a push (but not all at once) of reading and posting, it is usually intermingled with playing both chess and backgammon on the computer. You make it sound like it isn't pleasant or interesting. I think that it is, but if you think that, why on earth are you here?
In any case, cashing them in and holding cash instead, would be a totally moronic thing to do.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
chucknorris wrote: »I am enjoying myself, I don't actually post on here every day, on the days that I do post here, I might spend about a net hour of reading and posting. You make it sound like it isn't pleasant or interesting. I think that it is, but if you think that, why on earth are you here?
In any case, cashing them in and holding cash instead would be moronic.
Ok, you got me, it is quite pleasing posting on here (and HPC) sometimes, but not all the time. Yes, at your age you would want to still be invested in the markets, fair enough, I was half joking anyway about cashing in the trackers, it is the property you should cash in (unless you really get some kind of buzz out of being a landlord) IMO.0
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