The Next Nail in the Coffin

Conrad

Property bears are motivated by personal gain, they merely have a differing opinion on market timing and chose 'better' unearned income 'parasitic' assets in the meantime. I'm not sure why they paint themselves as semi Saintly.

chucknorris

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Chuck continually posts details of his "wealth" all over an internet forum, why shouldn`t people question his motivations for doing that?

I don't think having wealth is relevant when looking at the motivation for coming to this forum, you don't ignore value just because you are wealthy. In fact, you are more likely to be (or become) wealthy if you look for value.

He wasn't questioning my motivation for talking about wealth. But in any case I only mention my wealth when it is appropriate, for example in this particular instance that poster said:

economic wrote: »

however when people tak about how much their home equity has gone up and brag amount it (not saying you do as i do recall you are only concerned about income rather then capital values), they dont realise they would have been better off putting the money into the Dow and have made money on the rally

I was making it perfectly clear and emphasising that I am looking for, and achieving portfolio diversification, rather than merely investing in property. That will also apply when I dispose of properties, not only will I be retaining some property, my wife also owns property, so between us we will have diversity, which is important.

It wasn't so long ago that you were advising me to invest in ftse trackers, incorrectly assuming that I had not already done so:

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You don`t make losses in tracker funds until you actually cash them in, if you still believe in the markets coming back at various points in the future dips are your opportunity, they are easier to cash in than property as well. You have made PAPER gains in property, you have yet to realise these gains, this could prove to be much more difficult than cashing out of shares (trackers for example) if things start to wobble.

Which is why I responded with:

chucknorris wrote: »

I already have about £650k in trackers Crashy, it isn't as if I don't know what they are.

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

the desire to live in a crummy little 3 bed semi detached in an outer London suburb, plummeting.

Global population was 2 billion some 60 years ago, todays it's 7 billion and rising fast. I think your crummy semi will be worth a huge sum more in 20 years.


I have clients that bought in the early 1970's for a few thousand pounds, and despite the IRA, threat of Armageddon, OPEC, AIDS, Various crashes, many wars and 3 day weeks, those properties are worth more than 100 times what they were.


People tend to underestimate the future, it's hard-wired.

Crashy_Time

mwpt wrote: »

The tone taken reminded me of a previous poster and sounded judgemental that chuck chooses to post on this forum. I enjoy posting here, or I wouldn't do it, same as anyone I guess.

By the way, you seem to freely offer advice and opinion on what people should do regarding the housing market yet hide the results of your own decisions. You and I might share some common ground in that both of us would like to see lower priced property in the UK but at least I'm open about the fact that I made a huge loss by shorting the market for 10 years and have now bought in because I wanted a stable home. You continue to short the housing market and tell others to do the same, you should post the current results of your decision.

If you bought in recently you are probably about to make another huge loss, not exactly stable IMO.

mwpt

Conrad wrote: »

Property bears are motivated by personal gain, they merely have a differing opinion on market timing and chose 'better' unearned income 'parasitic' assets in the meantime. I'm not sure why they paint themselves as semi Saintly.

Some property bears are. Full disclaimer, I was primarily motivated by a desire not to lose money by buying at what I thought was probably the peak. If not for the government bailouts, that bet would most likely have paid off around 2008/09.

But some property bears own their houses outright and are just angry at the government intervention in the market which moves it away from regular people. They protest this form of price propping intervention and would prefer intervention of another kind which allows the populace of the country to have more affordable homes with lower debt requirements. Relaxed planning permissions, or state building. Just like I get angry about high rail fares energy costs, etc. Don't try to paint these people as speculators.

On top of that, you are wrong about the other forms of parasitic investment. You would be hard pressed to find a market as regulated toward existing asset owners and unproductive as the UK housing market. Choosing to take advantage of that by removing the property from would be owners and renting it back to them is the definition of a rentier and a low productivity, high parasitic behaviour. As long as the conditions exist to allow this, I don't blame the actors involved for taking part, but just admit it for what it is.

"In economics and in public-choice theory, rent-seeking involves seeking to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating new wealth. Rent-seeking results in reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced actual wealth creation, lost government revenue, increased income inequality,[1] and (potentially) national decline."

Crashy_Time

chucknorris wrote: »

I don't think having wealth is relevant when looking at the motivation for coming to this forum, you don't ignore value just because you are wealthy. In fact, you are more likely to be (or become) wealthy if you look for value.

He wasn't questioning my motivation for talking about wealth. But in any case I only mention my wealth when it is appropriate, for example in this particular instance that poster said:



I was making it perfectly clear and emphasising that I am looking for, and achieving portfolio diversification, rather than merely investing in property. That will also apply when I dispose of properties, not only will I be retaining some property, my wife also owns property, so between us we will have diversity, which is important.

It wasn't so long ago that you were advising me to invest in ftse trackers, incorrectly assuming that I had not already done so:



Which is why I responded with:

I didn`t mention FTSE trackers.

mwpt

Crashy_Time wrote: »

If you bought in recently you are probably about to make another huge loss, not exactly stable IMO.

Classic troll behaviour, avoid any direct answer at all costs.

You've been saying the exact same line for how many years now? Besides, if the market crashes this year, I might look to trade up and I'm happy. Or I'll just ignore the crash and continue to pay my fairly low mortgage payments and enjoy living in my home.

What I won't do is short speculate based on the advice of a poster who won't answer straight questions and has continually been wrong for 10 years or more.

chucknorris

Crashy_Time wrote: »

I didn`t mention FTSE trackers.

Now you are just being pedantic, you mentioned tracker funds, which is what ftse trackers are.

chucknorris

mwpt wrote: »

Classic troll behaviour, avoid any direct answer at all costs.

You've been saying the exact same line for how many years now? Besides, if the market crashes this year, I might look to trade up and I'm happy. Or I'll just ignore the crash and continue to pay my fairly low mortgage payments and enjoy living in my home.

What I won't do is short speculate based on the advice of a poster who won't answer straight questions and has continually been wrong for 10 years or more.

I might be wrong but I think that he actually sold in the previous century :eek: Imagine how much equity has slipped through his hands.

Crashy_Time

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/209150-and-then-you-win/page-2