UK PCM Parking Charge Notice

DJAdamah

I'm a uni student from London, studying in Essex. I received 3 PCNs from UK PCM (25/02, 07/03, 10/03) after they recently became the PPC for a small residential car park in Colchester, Essex. The car Park is an L shape with signage on the nearside left wall as you enter. I did not get a a ticket on my windscreen so it was only when I returned to London (registered address of the vehicle) yesterday for my Easter holiday that I've seen the PCNs. The postal PCN has photo evidence of my vehicle parked in the visitor bays of car park - 2 of the PCN photo evidence shows my car directly in front of signage, whereas the third is in the round the corner in the larger part of car park where there is no signage at all. Any advice on how to proceed as UKPCM are an IPC PCC. I have read various threads on the site over the last 12 hours, including the NEWBIE. From this I have drafted my first appeals for the PCNs:

Dear UK Car Park Management,
Reference: ______
On 07/03/16 my vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice at the _____ for the reason NOT DISPLAYING VALID TICKET.
I am not ignoring your charge for the purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge (not a statutory penalty) issued under a purported contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:
1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.
4. Your charge is based on damages for breach of contract (As stated in the PCN). Therefore, based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
5. If, as you claim, this is contractual charge, it is a fee for parking, and thus vatable. However this has not been accounted for in the PCN. As a result, I demand a VAT invoice.
6. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.
If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.
In my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent. Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.
For this reason, I look forward to receiving notification within 28 days that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled
Yours faithfully,


Any thoughts on this, and any advice on what could happen next.

Thanks
(first post)

Redx

if that is the template in the NEWBIES thread, nobody has any thoughts on it as the best person you could ask in the country, wrote it

what happens next ? simple

they will reject your appeal as there is no money to be made by accepting it

they may offer the IAS

if you take the IAS , they will reject your appeal too, because they are on the side of the sc@mmers

after that , the PPC will issue debt collector letters , usually via a 3rd party

if it remains unpaid, they have 6 years to take you to small claims court

if you lost , the judgment against you may be around £200 per pcn

if you dont pay this promptly, you will receive a CCJ

if you win in court, its over

if 6 years has elapsed with no court claim, its over

DJAdamah

So in short, there no way to avoid paying the charge other than hoping it isn't taken to court. In which case I have very little hope as I recently received a claim form from Ace Security for a separate parking dispute..
(as you can see I don't agree with private parking. Perhaps this is the turnaround as the PPCs seem to be winning)

Redx

only a judge can tell you to pay the charge, in a judgment for the claimant

if you win in court due to various legal arguments put in your defence (read the court case threads on here) you could win , pay nothing and claim costs

you could lose and have to pay the judgment to avoid a CCJ

it could "time out" after 6 years

what you do is your problem, all we can do is advise you on the facts and then you decide what to do based on those facts

the more research you do, the better prepared you will be , hence why a uni student should understand the value of research and weighing up the pros and cons of any topic they study or achieve

DJAdamah

correct - I asked for advice, not once did I say or imply that it was your problem. I also did not ask for judgement on what I should and shouldn't understand as a uni student- a fact that was only mentioned to give as much background on my situation. I have done my research and I found your appeal template, for which you basically negated the effectiveness of in you earlier post. If this was all so blatant then perhaps, as the best person in the country who wrote the template, you should put all that you mentioned above in the newbie thread as I spent many hours reading and adjusting your template only to be shut down in a manner that has not been entirely helpful, but rather taken me back to square 1. I followed all the steps that have been set out in the newbie thread so I am extremely disappointed in the manner and tone in which you have answered my questions.

Nevertheless,
Thanks

Redx

read my signature !

its also not my template, its written by a schoolteacher free of charge so that people like you can copy and paste it into your appeal to the PPC (not to be copied and pasted into your post , because we dont wish to read it if its the one in the NEWBIES thread , its not necessary for anyone to read it on here as we know where it is)

we are volunteers on here, we dont work for MSE

I never stated that it was my problem , I stated that it is your problem , all we do is point you at relevant info to read, no point if you are copying and pasting it and asking us if its correct or not, if you found it, then its correct, there was nothing new in that appeal , so pointless asking for our thoughts

I have spelled out the facts for you so you totally understand what those are, in simple terms, if those facts are incorrect, please elaborate

if you dont like the replies, then dont ask for advice , because I have done exactly that, given you basic advice free of charge

nobody said its easy, or that its simple, especially not with an IPC member

there are legal reasons for following that advice in that sticky thread, even if you dont understand them

its the best free advice you will get on the net, even paying a solicitor wont get you better advice of facts about this topic

I am not judging you (I leave that to the judge in your possible court case or your examiners when you take your exams), but I do expect a student to understand that facts are not always what you wish to hear, but I have done my best to lay it out in simple terms

I am not interested in your emotional feelings, I answered you because I knew I could advise you, but dont expect people to re-read something that is in the sticky thread, neither expect us to read what it says in deuteronomy chapter 3 , paragraph 1 , not if you can look it up in the bible

if you dont like my replies, tough, its a forum, I dont have to molly coddle people, or even reply, but I do so in the same way a lecturer may tell you to re-read your reference book because the info is in there, so dont copy and paste it to pad out your homework

the simple request would be :-

Please do I use the IPC template in the NEWBIES sticky thread, written by coupon mad

Answer = YES you do

you asked if we had any thoughts on this ?

the answer is , NO , because the best person who does have thoughts on it , wrote it , after many deliberations and research , its the definitive appeal for IPC members and many people contributed to assembling it

I gave you clear , concise and factual information, but I thought that you should be better at this modern research as a uni student than us old has beens that used pen and paper and the library (with no internet)

if you think this is difficult or exasperating , wait until the court case when you are trying to sort out your defence for the county court and trying to wriggle out of a court claim of up to £600 or more

think Judge Rinder !!

The_Deep

as you can see I don't agree with private parking.

Indeed, all property is theft Those who work hard and do well must be punished for their efforts, better to bunk off lectures, smoke pot, and claim benefits eh.

Coupon-mad

DJAdamah wrote: »

So in short, there no way to avoid paying the charge other than hoping it isn't taken to court. In which case I have very little hope as I recently received a claim form from Ace Security for a separate parking dispute.

Ace Security - we hope you defended that and didn't pay them (a clueless firm, not legal eagles).

As for UKCPM, no-one here is telling you to pay this. Same as other IPC firms, appeal using the template then ignore them, knowing the chances of them taking a case to a small claim is tiny.

And it's defendable, just like your Ace Security one I think they were so bad they were kicked out of the BPA and were/are unable to get DVLA data.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/ace-security-cancels-baseless-court.html

So how did Ace Security get your data and more importantly, please tell us you have defended that baseless claim?

Even if Ace had the cojones and the brainpower to potentially win this, they would have much more of an uphill struggle than the sharper PPCs like ParkingEye, who employ their own solicitors. Gladstones claims for clueless and ill-prepared IPC firms are not the same, by comparison.

The same can be said of UKCPM, if they try. They'd use Gladstones and see here for their track record, here is a post I made this week about their cases, when I posted on another forum as SchoolRunMum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=104923

Look at the links in post #2.

DJAdamah

Unfortunately i missed the deadline to defend the claim from Ace as I was a way at university and the claim was obviously sent to my home address. As a result i have been sent the judgement by default. However, I have two more letters before claim from Ace that i am intending to defend. What do you suggest is the best plan of action?

DJAdamah

Ive done some research on other threads and i have cone up with this response to th LBC's on behalf of Ace. Suitable?

PCN NUMBERS: XXXXXX; XXXXXX

Dear Sirs

Re: LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM dated [XX/XX/2016;XX/XX/2016]
Claimant: Pace Security & Storage LTD

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letters.

Thank you for referring me to the Practice Direction for Pre-Action conduct. I have fully checked, read and examined the civil procedure rules and I understand the courts powers to impose sanctions for failing to comply.

Your letters, however, fail to comply fully with the Practice Direction as they clearly omit the details necessary for the defendant to understand and investigate the issues proposed. This is a requirement that is clearly stated in Annex A, paragraph 2.1 of the Practice Direction. The Practice Direction states that the defendant should not need to request further information, however, your letters fail to include: (2) The basis on which the claim is made. Your letter states that full details of the charges have been previously provided, however as you are acting on behalf of your client, you must declare the basis for which the defendant is liable. Moreover, there was not a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based. Therefore your letter has failed to comply with part 3 of paragraph 2 in Annex A.

Paragraph 2.2 of the Practice direction also declares that the defendant is entitled to a full list if the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely. You have decided to make this claim against me, suggesting you have full access to the essential documents you intend to produce in evidence against me in court. I can confirm that I have no objections to the claimant adding to this list once you have seen my defence, but I must remind you that the defence will not be issued until after the start of proceedings, whereas this list of documents is required before proceedings have been started, under the Pre-action conduct steps, set down by the court.

Your letter before claim also failed to set out the form of ADR that the claimant considers the most suitable. You are required to do so under the Pre-action conduct steps, set down by the court.

As mentioned above, I thank you referring me to the Practice Direction as you are required to do so, however, you were misleading in that you suggested the defendant to refer to paragraphs 13-16 in particular, whereas the Practice direction, in paragraph 2.3, clearly states that you should draw the defendants attention to paragraph 4. This is clearly an attempt at misleading the defendant.

I am deeply concerned that a legal department staffed by solicitors have not produced a letter before claim compliant with the Practice Direction that the letter itself referred me to. I would like an explanation as to how this inaccurate and misleading Letter before Claim has been allowed to be sent prior to proposed court proceedings. As a result I would like a response from the solicitor in charge of the legal department and confirmation as to whether this letter was approved before the county court before it was sent to me.

I politely request that you send a letter before claim that adheres to the Practice Direction requirements that you are obligated to follow; including all the missing information and documents, along with the correction of the mistakes the original letters clearly had.

May I remind Gladstones Solicitors of the Court's powers to apply sanctions for non-compliance with the Practice Direction under Paragraph 4? If you do not send a fully compliant Letter before Claim as requested, I will seek the assistance of the court.

Please do me the courtesy of reading and replying to this letter. Please note, if you send me a generic template letter which does not address my requests for information, I shall copy the correspondence to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and ask it to investigate your breach of the Principles set out in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

Yours faithfully