What to do with old Allied Dunbar (now Zurich) Plans?

Zanderman

I have three old and fairly modest pension policies with Allied Dunbar (now Zurich) and am finally getting round to reviewing them and my options - leave them as they are, transfer them, re-commence some contributions etc. I know (and understand) very little about pensions but having reached 55 I feel I should be paying these old policies some attention. My plan is to get some formal advice, but I thought I might ask for immediate comments from helpful people here, as that might give some pointers on what to ask/do.

None of the policies are high value - I've paid into a company pension (also modest) for most of my employed life.

The first Allied Dunbar one is a 'personal retirement plan' begun in 1987 but ceasing a year or two later. I don't get annual statements for this but on enquiry in 2014 I was told it had a value of just £1000.

The second is a 'personal pension plan' begun in 1988 and ceasing in 1990 when I joined the company scheme. This included contracted-out SERPS contributions whilst it was live. Value of the pension itself, according to the annual statement from 2015 is just £8 but it has a Protected Rights element (I assume this means the SERPS bit) whose value is £12000.

And thirdly there is an 'AVC Pension Plan' begun in 1990 with continuing contributions until 2006 (only ceasing then because I fell on hard times). This has a value (Jan 2016) of £41000.

Zurich's latest statements suggest the £12K one would give an annuity of about £400 and the £41K one an annuity of £1250 at age 60. These estimates vary widely from statement to statement.

Any suggestions on what actions I should take or questions I should be asking would be appreciated.

I am now in a position to recommence some contributions - but whether I should recommence paying into to the AVC scheme or whether I'd be better starting a new pension, maybe a SIPP, is unclear to me.

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

AnotherJoe

If it was me I'd move all three entirely into a single SIPP but it also depends upon your current workplace pension as to what you should be contributing to. Note that the protected rights element is redundant now. It may be called that but it's no different to anything else.

Also you need to understand that the annuities quoted are pretty poor but you don't need to take an annuity from AD you can do it from almost anyone. But there's so much going on here especially with what other workplace pension you have and your plans for how long you'll work and how much money you'll need, that a few hours with an IFA charged on a one off basis would be a good place to start.

Zanderman

AnotherJoe wrote: »

If it was me I'd move all three entirely into a single SIPP but it also depends upon your current workplace pension as to what you should be contributing to. Note that the protected rights element is redundant now. It may be called that but it's no different to anything else.

Also you need to understand that the annuities quoted are pretty poor but you don't need to take an annuity from AD you can do it from almost anyone. But there's so much going on here especially with what other workplace pension you have and your plans for how long you'll work and how much money you'll need, that a few hours with an IFA charged on a one off basis would be a good place to start.

Thanks for your reply - is there any particular reason you would you transfer all to a SIPP?

I do understand the annuity doesn't need to be bought from Zurich, I only quoted those annuity figures as they give some indication of worth, albeit probably an underestimate.

Re workplace pension I'm seeing that as entirely separate at present - that would just about suffice by itself. I'm regarding these AD/Zurich pots as supplemental pensions. I just need to decide what to do with them..

I should perhaps add that I am no longer salaried and so no longer contributing to a workplace pension. Or indeed, at present, any pension, which is one reason I'm looking at these old policies and wondering how to manage them, especially if I start up another one.

AnotherJoe

Zanderman wrote: »

Thanks for your reply - is there any particular reason you would you transfer all to a SIPP?

Well, its probably best to be moved somewhere, old companies like this typically have high charges. Which SIPP and in what funds is likely best left to an IFA to advise, but you are likely to get better deals on drawdown and the like as well if elsewhere but I just say that out of prejudice from what I'd regard as "legacy" companies like this and maybe I'm being unfair to them.

Zanderman wrote: »

I do understand the annuity doesn't need to be bought from Zurich, I only quoted those annuity figures as they give some indication of worth, albeit probably an underestimate.

But they were utterly dire

Zanderman wrote: »

Re workplace pension I'm seeing that as entirely separate at present - that would just about suffice by itself. I'm regarding these AD/Zurich pots as supplemental pensions. I just need to decide what to do with them..

Seems fair enough. I dont see any point having three. So either put them all inside one of the AD pensions (probably easy to do) or somewhere else.

Zanderman wrote: »

I should perhaps add that I am no longer salaried and so no longer contributing to a workplace pension. Or indeed, at present, any pension, which is one reason I'm looking at these old policies and wondering how to manage them, especially if I start up another one.

See, this is where I"m confused. Generally when someone talks about a workplace pension they mean one where they work right now!! Not a previous employer.

What you seem to mean is, a fourth pension, from another previous employer, about which you provided no details but will be relying on? Maybe its got £8 in it, or perhaps its worth millions?

If you arent earning a salary right now you are very restricted in what you can contribute to a pension (and how can you if you dont have income? What are you living on? Do you have a lot of income from others sources? BTL??

I'm going to repeat myself. See an IFA.

dunstonh

I have come across many ex AD policies over the years and in most cases, the advice has been to leave them where they are. The reason being for those cases is that the AD charging was high but it was based on the contributions made. When the plans stopped receiving contributions, there was no annual management charge. They have a half decent range of generic funds. So, there was little point transferring the pensions away.

This doesnt mean the versions you have are the same as I have seen exceptions to that above. However, you do need to be on guard that the plans, once paid up, could actually be quite good.

Zanderman

AnotherJoe wrote: »

See, this is where I"m confused. Generally when someone talks about a workplace pension they mean one where they work right now!! Not a previous employer.

What you seem to mean is, a fourth pension, from another previous employer, about which you provided no details but will be relying on? Maybe its got £8 in it, or perhaps its worth millions?

If you arent earning a salary right now you are very restricted in what you can contribute to a pension (and how can you if you dont have income? What are you living on? Do you have a lot of income from others sources? BTL??

I'm going to repeat myself. See an IFA.

Thanks. Point taken about an IFA.

To clarify... I have three old AD pensions, long dormant, and I have had a company pension as well for much of my working life. And that (the company pension) is going to be sufficient for basic needs. I am viewing the AD pensions as merely supplemental.

Current situation, income-wise. I am no longer salaried, and no longer pay into a company scheme. I'm self-employed. No formal salary as such, but definitely an income - from which I can afford to begin paying pension contribs again.. But that fact is maybe a misleading distraction from my query - which is what's the best way forward with the AD pensions, assuming that they are just going to be supplemental. Though they could, of course, be the foundation of a new pension to which I make new contributions.

Zanderman

dunstonh wrote: »

I have come across many ex AD policies over the years and in most cases, the advice has been to leave them where they are. The reason being for those cases is that the AD charging was high but it was based on the contributions made. When the plans stopped receiving contributions, there was no annual management charge. They have a half decent range of generic funds. So, there was little point transferring the pensions away.

This doesnt mean the versions you have are the same as I have seen exceptions to that above. However, you do need to be on guard that the plans, once paid up, could actually be quite good.

Thanks, I had been aware that some AD policies were thought to be quite good. Do you have any advice on how to tell good from bad/mediocre?! Can I easily work it out from the paperwork and/or talking to Zurich? Or is the answer to see an IFA?

xylophone

http://www.thepfs.org/yourmoney/find-an-adviser/

You should get up to date information on the current value/charges etc and whether any of the policies have guarantees attached.

If you decided to transfer to a SIPP, you would need to do some research when choosing your platform - HL are very user friendly, administration very good and charges moderate for a modest SIPP.

http://www.hl.co.uk/partners/search/sipp?theSource=PCHLS&Override=0&adg=G+HLBS+HPN&gclid=COr2p7Du1ssCFUORGwodbEQLSw

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/cheap-sipps

You could also choose to continue to contribute to the SIPP from your earned income and receive tax relief, depending on your personal situation. http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions/sipp/how-much-can-i-invest?theSource=PCGSN&Override=1&adg=G+SIPPENG+LTM&gclid=COmD6M7u1ssCFcZAGwodXfoGTQ

You should also obtain a state pension statement after 6 April to help you with retirement planning.

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

Zanderman

Thanks to all for the advice and for taking the trouble to respond today.

I should perhaps stress that I am not seeking advice on my pension situation overall.

I posted today simply to ask advice on those three old Allied Dunbar plans - which I feel I should take some decisions on - perhaps keep them asis, transfer them or resume some payments.

Those three plans are not critical to my overall retirement situation, so my posting isn't linked to my overall retirement situation.

I am planning to get some formal advice on these plans, and on some additional pension provision in general. In the meantime any additional comments about those plans would be very useful!

foreversummer

Hi

I hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread, perhaps I should have started a new one, but does anyone know if these old Allied Dunbar plans can be drawn down in retirement.

Hubby has one with about £18000 in. He has always been told to leave it where it is as the transfer charge is high. It was started in c 1992 and he paid into it only for 2-3 years. There was a lump sum compensation paid into it because he was mis-sold it and he was advised to transfer his final salary pension to it.:mad:

He is not sure how he will access it in retirement.

Many thanks.

dunstonh

but does anyone know if these old Allied Dunbar plans can be drawn down in retirement.

They cant. They would need transferring.