The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
That describes pretty much all your posts, ISTL.

Not at all, I thanked TT83 in the last page because he made a very good post and had some good points.

I've also admitted mistakes or changed views in here before

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Which is how I first proclaimed you similarly to TT83 some posts back now - others now are seeing the evidence too and also reaching that conclusion.
Oh, and still multiple posts will still not see an end to opposition to unfounded prevarication.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72403080&postcount=8848

Prevarication bullsh!t again.
I do not speak falsely and am not a liar, I simply have differing view

This is a plain attempt to "play the man, not the ball".

Will Mollycat pronounce you as a Troll? I doubt it

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And btw, employment law doesn't dictate when you're to be given annual leave, if you don't take it with some employers you lose it, some transfer it to the next year, ultimately the manager/boss chooses when you're allowed to take your leave depending on the business and staff availability.

I suggest you go and read up on employment law a bit more.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement

Although employers can refuse to give leave at a certain time, they can’t refuse to let workers take the leave at all.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

But that's all irrelevant to the point I was making which was that just because they said yes last time to your holiday request does not mean they will say yes automatically for future requests, I honestly do not understand why that (which was the point I was making) is so hard to understand...

I understand perfectly the fallacy point your making.
With annual leave the employer must say yes at some point.
They cannot deny you the entitlement indefinitely
:sigh:

Maybe you can see the polar effect your two paragraphs above are stating

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Not at all, I thanked TT83 in the last page because he made a very good post and had some good points.

I've also admitted mistakes or changed views in here before




Prevarication bullsh!t again.
I do not speak falsely and am not a liar, I simply have differing view

This is a plain attempt to "play the man, not the ball".

Will Mollycat pronounce you as a Troll? I doubt it

And that post is what exactly?
"play the man, not the ball".

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And btw, employment law doesn't dictate when you're to be given annual leave, if you don't take it with some employers you lose it, some transfer it to the next year, ultimately the manager/boss chooses when you're allowed to take your leave depending on the business and staff availability.

BTW, some employers may offer leave to be accrued to the next year or paid in lieu, but the employee then chooses whether to accept that offer or not.

If they opt not to accept that, the employer must grant the annual leave.

The use it or lose it scenario you refer to is when employers instruct employees that they must take the leave before the annual leave year ends and that no options of accrual or payment in lieu is offered.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

And that post is what exactly?
"play the man, not the ball".

I guess in reflection it was a defensive maneuver to attempt to protect oneself from the horrible mistimed, off the ball challenges that are coming in from multiple players.

I can take it though, I'm used to this stance when people cannot defend their posts and teammates dogmatically try to defend their colleague.

Getting back to playing the ball
Maybe you can confirm, do you agree with TT83 that the annual leave request is a good analogy of the section 30 request?

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I suggest you go and read up on employment law a bit more.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement





I understand perfectly the fallacy point your making.
With annual leave the employer must say yes at some point.
They cannot deny you the entitlement indefinitely
:sigh:

Maybe you can see the polar effect your two paragraphs above are stating

Right...

If you were my employer and you gave me annual leave yesterday and I request annual leave from you today for the rest of the week are you obliged to say yes?

If you had a referendum granted in 2012 are Westminster obliged to say yes to a new request?

That is the sum context of the analogy, extrapolating the context further in an attempt to discredit this very simple point won't wash.

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Getting back to playing the ball
Maybe you can confirm, do you agree with TT83 that the annual leave request is a good analogy of the section 30 request?

I thought Tricky's analogy was fine; easy to understand for most I would have thought.

Are your multiple posts questioning the appropriateness of the analogy a way of diverting the direction of travel of this thredad which is,

1. Independence is a terrible idea. 2. The popular vote against Independence is growing daily. 3. As an SNP propaganda thread, this is now wholly counterproductive?

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Right...

If you were my employer and you gave me annual leave yesterday and I request annual leave from you today for the rest of the week are you obliged to say yes?

If you had a referendum granted in 2012 are Westminster obliged to say yes to a new request?

That's not the reality though is it.

I have accepted that the employer can say "not right now, the time is not right".
there is no debate on that point

I've had to do that once or twice in my time, however what I did do as a great leader was work with the "employee" and try to find a solution that suits the individual and the business.

The point is on annual leave, that as an employer, I must grant your annual leave entitlement within a certain time frame.

So TM has said "not right now", which we accept, which NS accepts and NS has suggested a time which TM agreed the anticipated completion of the Brxit negotiations, which seems good to me so that the Scottish people can make an informed choice between : -

• Staying in the UK with the government elected in June
  and
• Opting to be Independent and remain within the EU

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you had a referendum granted in 2012 are Westminster obliged to say yes to a new request?

Democratically (as voted for by the Scottish government) and as set by the precedent of 2012, then yes.

The only point for debate is the timing.

IveSeenTheLight

mollycat wrote: »

I thought Tricky's analogy was fine; easy to understand for most I would have thought.

For me it was too simplistic and did not consider the wider concept.

However you are fine with it, then you must be ok with the position that Scotland must be granted a second independence referendum at a suitable time

mollycat wrote: »

Are your multiple posts questioning the appropriateness of the analogy a way of diverting the direction of travel of this thredad which is,

1. Independence is a terrible idea. 2. The popular vote against Independence is growing daily. 3. As an SNP propaganda thread

This thread is far more than just and Independence thread ,

For everything Scotland related. Economics, politics, oil prices, GERS, new powers etc etc.

However I in no way am diverting or deflecting any open discussion point.

Feel free to make any point you want

mollycat wrote: »

1. Independence is a terrible idea. 2. The popular vote against Independence is growing daily. 3. As an SNP propaganda thread

1. It would appear there are opposite views on this
2. This is also a debatable point with the last poll I saw showing most people voted for Independence in Europe as opposed to a Conservative Government in UK
3. Again, this could be a very debatable point and not just for the SNP.

Feel free to make your specific points on anything Scotland related in this thread

mollycat wrote: »

This is now wholly counterproductive?

This I find very interesting.
What product do you anticipate to achieve out of this board discussions?

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

This I find very interesting.
What product do you anticipate to achieve out of this board discussions?

Nothing obviously! Doh!

The thread was started to spread pro-independence propaganda; it has failed miserably in that regard by highlighting the lameness of particularly the economic argument.

You of course may not appreciate that given you joined the "debate" in the thread equivalent of 10 minutes ago.

I'm not surprised you have failed to understand Tricky's simple analogy given that up until about a week ago you thought the "snap General Election", was scheduled for June 2018! Sheesh.

So maybe not a troll; maybe just not the quickest?