REFUSED by HSBC/Firstdirect a deposit of cash

takman

Heng_Leng wrote: »

Until they say that you are a scammer and get their bank to arrange for the funds to be returned.

That's not possible with bank transfers once you make a payment it can't be reversed. If they try and say they paid the wrong person by mistake then you have a copy of the V5 showing that they bought a car off you. So nothing to worry about!

takman

grumbler wrote: »

Moot point.
"Meet personally" - this hardly makes any difference.
"Has a UK account and a UK identification" - are you saying that there are no fraudsters in UK and they all are abroad? - This is ignoring that the 'identification' can be fake and you are no expert to check this.

My point is that as a result of AML regulations designed by stupid lawmakers and being implemented by even less clever and unpunishable banks' servants, law-abiding people can easily find in themselves in an awkward position of being unable to make a perfectly legitimate transaction without taking a risk of getting blacklisted for some alleged fraud.

But there would be an extremely low chance of this happening considering that your actually meeting this person. If they had a UK account that a bank suspected of fraudulent transactions then why would that account still be open and be allowed to transfer all its money out?.
I understand your point but why would someone go to the trouble of meeting someone face to face then giving a fake ID and transfer money from a suspect account to buy a car?. They would never get the V5 of the car because they gave a fake address and fake name. They would have to change the number plates because when you report the fraud the police would be able to track them. Getting hold of new plates that won't cause them to be stopped isn't easy. It all seems very elaborate and a lot of work for them for little reward!. The chaces of that happening is extremely low!

I bet that every time you read about someone getting an account closed after a suspect payment it will be from someone who they have never met on the Internet!.

Plus two local businesses that I have used recently have accepted payment by bank transfer and openly display their bank details on invoices (which are both personal accounts). But they have never had their accounts closed!

callum9999

I don't know why so many people are claiming that receiving a wad of cash is the safest way to sell a car. Are you a forgery expert?

If you're accepting cash, you really should go to the bank together so the buyer can pay it directly into your account. Which funnily enough will also answer the question of "where is this money coming from"!

grumbler

takman wrote: »

But there would be an extremely low chance of this happening considering that your actually meeting this person. If they had a UK account that a bank suspected of fraudulent transactions then why would that account still be open and be allowed to transfer all its money out?.

Even if you check the existence of this account, that you aren't supposed to do, you can't check what account the money was transferred from.
One of scenarios is that it's some hacked account. Or some account in ML chain opened with fake/stolen ID.
You get blacklisted without even being able to say a word in your defence.

I bet that every time you read about someone getting an account closed after a suspect payment it will be from someone who they have never met on the Internet!.

I don't see much difference between Internet and street.

Plus two local businesses that I have used recently have accepted payment by bank transfer and openly display their bank details on invoices (which are both personal accounts). But they have never had their accounts closed!

I don't see how this can be relevant to fraud/ML.

Ballard

ceredigion wrote: »

So I just sold a car for £8000. The punter signs the v5 and goes home in his new car. What do I have to prove to a bank that I sold a car ?

Never having bought or sold a car I have no idea what a v5 is but I'm guessing that it'd be a good place to start.

Ballard

grumbler wrote: »

>> Banned from banking in the UK? Help!
AFAIK, many banks don't show the sender's name for incoming transfers.

The obvious answer would be to call your bank to verify the remitter prior to handing over your keys.

takman

grumbler wrote: »

Even if you check the existence of this account, that you aren't supposed to do, you can't check what account the money was transferred from.
One of scenarios is that it's some hacked account. Or some account in ML chain opened with fake/stolen ID.
You get blacklisted without even being able to say a word in your defence.

I don't see much difference between Internet and street.

I don't see how this can be relevant to fraud/ML.

Well these businesses (sole traders really) happily accept payments from anyone who wants to use their services into their bank. Using your logic their banks should have been closed down by now due to a payment from a fraudulent person. But in reality they have had no problems. So this shows the chances of what you think will happen is extremely low.

The difference between receiving a payment from someone who you have met is that you know what they look like and that they are located in the same country as you!. Online they could be located anywhere in the world and you won't even know what they look like. If someone is opening fake accounts or tricking people into letting them use their account then they wouldn't really want to be showing their face so they can be recognised!.

You mentioned a "hacked account" no bank account has ever been hacked. It is always people being tricked into handing out their login details.

grumbler

takman wrote: »

So this shows the chances of what you think will happen is extremely low.

I have never said that it was very likely, but this happens and consequences are far too serious to ignore.
Also, this depends on the bank and typically fraudsters target individuals selling expensive items.

The difference between receiving a payment from someone who you have met is that you know what they look like and that they are located in the same country as you!.

Good for you. You say this like if your bank will ask you for help with catching the criminal. The status quo is that banks CBA to investigate anything seriously, routinely close accounts just to be on the safe side and blacklist innocent customers just in case.

You mentioned a "hacked account" no bank account has ever been hacked. It is always people being tricked into handing out their login details.

Well, this is just the most common way of hacking.
In fact, login details can be easily intercepted by keyloggers. The main problem is the extra security for authorising a payment to a new payee.

takman

grumbler wrote: »

I have never said that it was very likely, but this happens and consequences are far too serious to ignore.
Also, this depends on the bank and typically fraudsters target individuals selling expensive items.
....
Good for you. You say this like if your bank will ask you for help with catching the criminal. The status quo is that banks CBA to investigate anything seriously, routinely close accounts just to be on the safe side and blacklist innocent customers just in case.

But someone who is committing fraud is less likely to do it face to face especially when it involves money laundering. This will mean that they are more likely to be caught by any fraud investigation by the police. I wasn't suggesting that the bank will carry out any kind of real investigation that has a productive outcome!.
Plus alot of payments that end up with people having their account closed originate from abroad so that's why i mentioned about them being in the same country reduces the risk.

grumbler wrote: »

Well, this is just the most common way of hacking.
In fact, login details can be easily intercepted by keyloggers. The main problem is the extra security for authorising a payment to a new payee.

I agree that using a keylogger can be considering hacking but this is done on the customers computer (The actual bank account isn't hacked).
But if a banks computer system is hacked then the criminals would be able to transfer millions of pounds at will to whatever accounts they want. They definitely wouldn't hack into a banks system then use this access to meet up with someone and steal a mere £8000 to buy a car lol.

diamonds

takman wrote: »

But if a banks computer system is hacked then the criminals would be able to transfer millions of pounds at will to whatever accounts they want. They definitely wouldn't hack into a banks system then use this access to meet up with someone and steal a mere £8000 to buy a car lol.

Yes, its a mere MP that steals small amounts like £11000 for his children then says his fraud was "a accident", all because online the evidence trail would compound guilt of fraud.