Exploitation, Exploitation, Exploitation

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Ah, I see. Closed borders are for other people not you.

You are a little slow on the uptake here if you have only just arrived at that conclusion although you're not quite right.

I believe that it is in the best interest of the people of the UK that we limit immigration.
Other countries may take a different view and so will have different policies.

I believe that tariff free trade is mutually beneficial for both parties : some / most countries don't agree.

It seems not unreasonable to me that the parliaments of these countries should make that value judgement.

If, in the future, it appears that a greater level of immigration is in our best interests then I shall support that; it's less likely that I will abandon belief in free trade but it will depend upon the evidence too.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

I still find it odd how the main reason you have claimed immigration is bad for the UK, is because it has forced up property prices in London and locked out the young from the housing market, and yet the younger age groups in London by my experience are generally remarkably Europhile.

no, I am against substantial increases in population because
- it reduces the standard of housing (especially in London and the SE) available to young people (e.g. access to a family sized property for those wanting to start a family is getting worse and worse)
- it makes it more difficult for the young to own their own property rather than renting
- it increases travel times that effectively mean people are working longer for no extra money i.e. they are worse off
- it increases the delays and access to NHS services
- it makes some of the beautiful places of the UK more crowded: we will probably see huge congestion this weekend with people going off for a Easter break.
- the flood of immigrants suppresses the wage of UK people
-the plentiful supply of cheap labour also means there is little incentives for business to increase productively and so will maintain low basic wages levels
- the rise in population also extenuates the trade balance deficit as we need to increase our imports of essential products (food, fuel, gas etc)

I don't know whether the young in London are in favour of further immigration and and are europhile but as about 50% of young londoners are foreigners then one would not be surprised.

Let's be honest here, the reason London has such high levels of immigration is because the economy has relatively speaking been doing extremely well and the labour market been sucking in people from across the UK and Europe to support that.

People come to London is for many reasons : partly the abject failure of the EU economic policies (which show no sign of improving); partly because of our benefit systems, partly because wage rates in the East European (and many countries outside the EU) are very low and of course London is a wonderful city.

As others have said many times before EU immigration is generally a net positive for the finances of the economy, receiving young, highly motivated migrants who are genuinely looking to work generally isn't the biggest problem a country can have, especially as the underlying reason for it is a regional economy that has been performing strongly.

Yes immigration does create winners and losers, as anything in life does (low interest rates are probably more responsible for house price growth than immigration is, but I haven't seen many rabidly protesting about that outside of the HPC forum!), but I hardly see any "facts" to support your claim that leaving the EU is clearly in the best interests of the people of the UK.

We all have our opinions but there are a lot more shades of gray than most are willing to admit on either side, its unfortunately why most of the "debate" is as awful as you would expect.

There is no evidence that, even in simple cash terms, large scale immigration is to our benefit, as none of the infrastructure costs are included in the balance nor the other drawbacks I've outlined above.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

no, I am against substantial increases in population because
- it reduces the standard of housing (especially in London and the SE) available to young people (e.g. access to a family sized property for those wanting to start a family is getting worse and worse)
- it makes it more difficult for the young to own their own property rather than renting
- it increases travel times that effectively mean people are working longer for no extra money i.e. they are worse off
- it increases the delays and access to NHS services
- it makes some of the beautiful places of the UK more crowded: we will probably see huge congestion this weekend with people going off for a Easter break.
- the flood of immigrants suppresses the wage of UK people
-the plentiful supply of cheap labour also means there is little incentives for business to increase productively and so will maintain low basic wages levels
- the rise in population also extenuates the trade balance deficit as we need to increase our imports of essential products (food, fuel, gas etc)

Clapton hates modern medicine, saving all those lives, letting people live longer, increasing crowding.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

Clapton hates modern medicine, saving all those lives, letting people live longer, increasing crowding.

you are a fool

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

you are a fool

And you are merely pragmatic. It's a nice out.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

And you are merely pragmatic. It's a nice out.

why is that ?
don't you ever change your mind when the facts change?