Council Issued Ticket at a Private Car Park

funtimefranky23

Hi

I received a car parking ticket this week and am slightly confused by it. It was a Council issued parking ticket but it was issued to me for parking in a private car park (not council owned).

I am going to pay the ticket as it is council issued plus it was a fair cop, I shouldn't have been parked there. However, I am confused as to how I can get issued with a council ticket for parking on private land.

The car park concerned is a medium sized private car park and has 'private car park' signs upon entrance. Until recently I paid them a monthly amount to receive a permit from them to park there and have done for about the 5 years. However, about a year ago they decided to put up the cost by 150% so I declined and cancelled. When I parked there with my permit there was often people who parked there without a permit and they would always put a notice on peoples windows stating that it was a private car park and that they risked there vehicles getting 'towed' if they carried on parking there. This was obviously all hot air and that never happened.

Anyway since I cancelled my permit I have still parked there occasionally (I know I shouldn't have, but there is never shortage of spaces). On a couple of occasions I have had the usual notices about not parking there as it is a private car park etc, but then a couple of days ago I came back to an actual council issued parking ticket.

I am going to pay it as I freely admit that I have been taking liberties. But just want to understand how the council have the authority to issue a ticket on private (not public) land?

Does anyone know the law?

Thanks for reading.

MataNui

An old client of mine bought some old council offices. They came with a large public car park. For a while they ran it as a private car park but then leased it back to the council. The council now run it as a pay and display. Could be something similar.

Coupon-mad

Are you sure it is a Council one? Not just Wing Parking pretending/acting for Greenwich or Islington, contracted by the ALMO? Don't be fooled by the Council logo if this is what you've got.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-length_management_organisation

We have threads about that and if this is from Wing Parking and headed up 'parking charge notice' (NOT 'penalty') it's a private PCN. The first appeal for the keeper (NOT DRIVER!!) to send is the usual blue one from the NEWBIES FAQS thread* to Wing, submitting it deliberately around day 22, if this is Wing Parking in a Housing Association residents car park. Then you have to send it again to the Housing Assoc, same appeal, to get a POPLA code. Then as keeper you win because there can be no keeper liability for two reasons.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree? If so, which Local Authority? Is it headed 'PENALTY Charge Notice?


*please read the 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' thread, if this is a 'parking charge notice' not a penalty charge.

funtimefranky23

Thanks, Couponmad.

Unfortunately it is a penalty charge notice so I think I have no choice but to pay. I will try and post a pic of the penalty notice now

funtimefranky23

Fruitcake

funtimefranky23 wrote: »

You would probably be better off posting this on pepipoo.com as they are the Council parking specialists. Read the FAQs and post both sides of your PCN with your query.

Coupon-mad

I would NEVER just pay a Council PCN! Always take them to pepipoo forum for an opinion and anyway, you have nothing to lose. You may as well bung in an early appeal by day 13 because Councils re-offer the discount (which the PCN tells you, on the back).

You will need to start a new topic here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

and show them BOTH SIDES (yes, all the small print) of that PCN, not just that picture above. Also was this a 'permit only' car park then, or a pay and display? You will need to explain the car park and contravention to the posters on that forum.

You can check if there is a Parking Places Order in place for that car park by checking first on the L/Auth website and if they do not show all the traffic Orders there, email them or go in and ask for a copy of the Order which is a public document (they can't make you make an appointment nor pay more then a few pence for copying for it).

Pepipoo may then be able to find an 'out' for you. If not, they will tell you and you can still pay at the discount when re-offered on rejection. or you can decide to press on with the appeal if you appear to have grounds (and it's not to do with being bang to rights or not).

The important thing is to follow pepipoo advice and appeal in time and not drop the ball.

dazster

This is my patch and I'll be in Harpenden later today, so if I can find somewhere to park (!) I'll check it out.

The land is indubitably owned by St. Albans District Council and the car park is covered by this Parking Places Order:

http://stalbans.gov.uk/Images/off%20street%20order%202015_001_tcm15-50413.pdf

The questions is, however, whether the car park is appropriately signed. If there is merely a sign stating "Private Car Park" then this will not do the job.

funtimefranky23

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would NEVER just pay a Council PCN! Always take them to pepipoo forum for an opinion and anyway, you have nothing to lose. You may as well bung in an early appeal by day 13 because Councils re-offer the discount (which the PCN tells you, on the back).

You will need to start a new topic here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

and show them BOTH SIDES (yes, all the small print) of that PCN, not just that picture above. Also was this a 'permit only' car park then, or a pay and display? You will need to explain the car park and contravention to the posters on that forum.

You can check if there is a Parking Places Order in place for that car park by checking first on the LAuth website and if they do not show all the traffic Orders there, email them or go in and ask for a copy of the Order which is a public document (they can't make you make an appointment nor pay more then a few pence for copying for it).

Pepipoo may then be able to find an 'out' for you. If not, they will tell you and you can still pay at the discount when re-offered on rejection. or you can decide to press on with the appeal if you appear to have grounds (and it's not to do with being bang to rights or not).

The important thing is to follow pepipoo advice and appeal in time and not drop the ball.

Thanks, Coupon-mad. It was a permit only car park not pay & display. I will take a look at pepipoo

funtimefranky23

dazster wrote: »

This is my patch and I'll be in Harpenden later today, so if I can find somewhere to park (!) I'll check it out.

The land is indubitably owned by St. Albans District Council and the car park is covered by this Parking Places Order:

http://stalbans.gov.uk/Images/off%20street%20order%202015_001_tcm15-50413.pdf

The questions is, however, whether the car park is appropriately signed. If there is merely a sign stating "Private Car Park" then this will not do the job.

Thanks, Dazster. Having looked this morning, there are two signs - one just says 'private car park' and the other states that anyone parking there will be liable to a parking charge notice and has the council's crest on it! So not looking good.

Coupon-mad

But pepipoo are there to find if you have a case based on something you've not even thought of, hence why you need a topic there with BOTH SIDES of the PCN. The wording could be flawed (sometimes is) which can win an appeal on a technicality.