Experiences of neutering male dogs

GwylimT

sangie595 wrote: »

I hate to burst anyone's bubble,but my entire dogs have never run off, ever, for any reason. That is a result of training. Not of neutering. Neutered dogs also run off. If they aren't trained. And I resent the implications that only neutered dogs have responsible owners. That is not a rational argument and is not supported by any evidence.

A neutered dog isn't going to impregnate a female.

Person_one

sangie595 wrote: »

I hate to burst anyone's bubble,but my entire dogs have never run off, ever, for any reason. That is a result of training. Not of neutering. Neutered dogs also run off. If they aren't trained. And I resent the implications that only neutered dogs have responsible owners. That is not a rational argument and is not supported by any evidence.

That wasn't the suggestion, it was that responsible owners of entire dogs don't let them off the lead. It only takes one incidence of 'running off' for your dog to be responsible for an unplanned litter, and as we destroy around 5000 unwanted dogs in this country every year, I do have a high expectation of the owners of entire dogs and fully expect them to do what is needed to be 100% sure that doesn't happen. That means a lead at all times when not in a safe, secure area they can't escape from.

sangie595

Person_one wrote: »

That wasn't the suggestion, it was that responsible owners of entire dogs don't let them off the lead. It only takes one incidence of 'running off' for your dog to be responsible for an unplanned litter, and as we destroy around 5000 unwanted dogs in this country every year, I do have a high expectation of the owners of entire dogs and fully expect them to do what is needed to be 100% sure that doesn't happen. That means a lead at all times when not in a safe, secure area they can't escape from.

Rubbish. In 58 years my family and I have NEVER had, or been responsible for, an unplanned litter. Neither have we ever had a dog who has not been trained to instant recall. WHATEVER the "distraction". If you cannot train your dogs to that standard of behaviour, then I agree - that it is your responsibility to control your untrained dogs.

Nor have they ever been "sheep worrying" - goodness where did that aside come from - there is no evidence that entire dogs worry sheep!

Personally I have a high expectation that people train their dogs properly.

I am a volunteer at the Dogs Trust. I know very well how many dogs are destroyed. NOT because of unwanted pregnancies in dogs but because or irresponsible owners being unwilling to be responsible for the care of their dog. It isn't puppies that we are usually rehoming - it is older, and often much older dogs, that people are not prepared to take responsibility for. That has nothing to do with neutering and everything to do with responsibility.

My dogs are, and always will be, fully under my control. My young boy, who is a handsome blue merle, will have a "girlfriend" when he is older and will have litters - under conditions that I allow and approve of. Which will, like his parents, include both mother and father caring for the litter. When I breed dogs - I also breed responsibility, and well-balanced pups do better with BOTH parents around.

There is no correlation, despite your personal opinions, between responsible dog ownership and neutering. That is not evidence - it is bias. You may think this. I disagree. You cannot, and have no right to, dictate what is right in individual circumstances. Perhaps you cannot be 100% sure of your own dogs obedience to command. In which case you should act accordingly. I am quite certain of my dogs 100% obedience to command, and I will act accordingly.

Person_one

All those dogs that are killed start out as puppies. Fewer pups born each year means fewer unwanted adult dogs in rescues/pounds and more available homes for them when they are abandoned.

As you plan to breed your dog with his 'girlfriend' for some reason we will clearly not agree on this though.

missbiggles1

I had no idea that there were people, apart from breeders, who didn't have their dogs sterilised these days - it's never occurred to me not to.

cepheus

There seems to be a large culture difference between countries. In the UK and USA it has been customary to neuter all dogs. In contrast it is considered a form of mutilation or animal abuse in Scandinavia, like tail or ear clipping, unless there are sound medical reasons to do so. In fact in Norway it is illegal.

http://sciencenordic.com/should-dogs-be-neutered

Very few dogs of either sex are neutered there and there is no population problem because they have strict regulations against puppy farms and unregulated breeders which are the real villains over here.

It seems the evidence is somewhat intermediate between these two extremes . Medically it is beneficial for females but detrimental for males (see the link in the OP), so in the latter case the decision needs to be justified on behaviour. A halfway house is to chemically neuter using an insert to examine how the dogs behaviour changes, if at all. If it becomes worse then the procedure is reversible, unlike the operation. Unfortunately, this temporarily cuts of testosterone production completely which is produced in small amounts by several organs in mammals and therefore in neutered males and females.

cepheus

Paradigm wrote: »

From what you've posted he doesn't seem to have any behavioural issues??
He's just a growing puppy displaying normal "pain in the !!!!!" puppy stuff


He's not doing anything that can't be sorted with patience & consistent training along with him growing up!


BTW... for a Lab/Shepherd cross he's not anywhere near "full grown" at 14 months, he needs another 6 months at least to be considered mature.

I've got a Dogue de Bordeaux boy who's 21 months & he's only just started to calm down, still some way to go though

My dog has always loved to play with big dogs even when 3 months old, and there's a 10 stone Bordeaux up the road he romps with. The owners were frightened of him falling on him as a pup! He seems to have filled out and stabilised now at around 32 kg.

sangie595

missbiggles1 wrote: »

I had no idea that there were people, apart from breeders, who didn't have their dogs sterilised these days - it's never occurred to me not to.

Oddly, it had never occurred to me that there are so many utterly dogmatic people who believe that anyone who does not hold the same opinion as them is automatically wrong and irresponsible. Smacks of the "argument weak, shout here" brigade.

And as for person-one, if you cannot think of a reason why one would not wish to breed from a handsome blue merle, that in itself suggests an inadequate knowledge of dogs - blue merle border collies are in demand amongst responsible dog owners because they are rare and beautiful dogs amongst a breed who excel at trialling and competition work. My boy is the descendant of a line of champions. There are strong signs that he will be holding up his end of the legacy. So it is genetics - the preservation of everything that is perfect about the breed. That is the reason.

And when he does breed, owners for the puppies will be carefully and strictly vetted for appropriate ownership, based on experience, commitment, ability and opportunity, to ensure that new owners are able to support the needs of the dog responsibly. That is responsible ownership. Not some arbitrary diktat attempting to impose a single viewpoint of a medical procedure on all and sundry because it suits their own personal view of the world.

missbiggles1

sangie595 wrote: »

Oddly, it had never occurred to me that there are so many utterly dogmatic people who believe that anyone who does not hold the same opinion as them is automatically wrong and irresponsible. Smacks of the "argument weak, shout here" brigade.

And as for person-one, if you cannot think of a reason why one would not wish to breed from a handsome blue merle, that in itself suggests an inadequate knowledge of dogs - blue merle border collies are in demand amongst responsible dog owners because they are rare and beautiful dogs amongst a breed who excel at trialling and competition work. My boy is the descendant of a line of champions. There are strong signs that he will be holding up his end of the legacy. So it is genetics - the preservation of everything that is perfect about the breed. That is the reason.

And when he does breed, owners for the puppies will be carefully and strictly vetted for appropriate ownership, based on experience, commitment, ability and opportunity, to ensure that new owners are able to support the needs of the dog responsibly. That is responsible ownership. Not some arbitrary diktat attempting to impose a single viewpoint of a medical procedure on all and sundry because it suits their own personal view of the world.

It's a terrible thing to bring more dogs into the world out of vanity and greed when there are so many unwanted dogs already.

"Don't breed or buy while homeless dogs die."

Paradigm

missbiggles1 wrote: »

It's a terrible thing to bring more dogs into the world out of vanity and greed when there are so many unwanted dogs already.

That's rather naïve to be honest, it's not vanity or greed. Responsible breeders try to improve the breed by mating animals with desired physical condition & behavioural traits whilst at the same time trying to breed out the unwanted stuff (hip dysplasia in German Shepherds being an example)


We're not talking puppy farms here where it's purely about money & there is no interest in the quality of pups they churn out!


Selective breeding isn't restricted to dogs... it goes on in birds (racing pigeons for example), pedigree cattle, sheep, pigs etc etc.


The reason shelters are inundated with unwanted dogs isn't because Rover next door still has his danglies, it's due to uncontrolled puppy farming & owners who decide to take on that cute puppy without any research or knowledge only to get rid when it starts chewing the furniture or gets ill & they find out how expensive vet treatment can be.


I doubt very much that accidental matings account for more than a couple of % of dogs in shelters, in over 30 years I've never had one.