Scottish Power ComfortPlus Control Question

gingerscot

Hi All,

Know there's a few albeit old discussions on this subject but just need clarification.

From my understanding of the bills, looking at the meters and conversations (I bought the property a few months ago), we have two separate meters connected to two separate circuits with all the storage heaters and panel heaters on the cheap rate and everything else on the normal rate (interestingly the electric shower seems to be on the low rate which is nice!).

The storage heaters are ugly beasts (20 yrs old though realise this makes no difference to their efficiency) and to be honest so are the flat panels. Scottish Power also control when power comes in to the storage heaters with their weather call system.

So my question is; since it's on a low rate regardless of the time of day, what is the advantage of storage heaters in this circumstance? They are wasting large amounts of heat in the day when we are out and surely thermostat/modern flat panels which I could also link to apps/nest etc would cost exactly the same on the same tariff but be far more flexible with when I need the heat?


Thanks

Richie-from-the-Boro

gingerscot wrote: »

Hi All,

Know there's a few albeit old discussions on this subject but just need clarification.

From my understanding of the bills, looking at the meters and conversations (I bought the property a few months ago), we have two separate meters connected to two separate circuits with all the storage heaters and panel heaters on the cheap rate and everything else on the normal rate (interestingly the electric shower seems to be on the low rate which is nice!).

The storage heaters are ugly beasts (20 yrs old though realise this makes no difference to their efficiency) and to be honest so are the flat panels. Scottish Power also control when power comes in to the storage heaters with their weather call system.

So my question is; since it's on a low rate regardless of the time of day, what is the advantage of storage heaters in this circumstance? They are wasting large amounts of heat in the day when we are out and surely thermostat/modern flat panels which I could also link to apps/nest etc would cost exactly the same on the same tariff but be far more flexible with when I need the heat?


Thanks

since it's on a low rate regardless of the time of day

I'm not in your country, are you sure you have an all day cheap tariff ?

The energy requirement of the storage heaters is inversely proportional to the mean forecast temperature for the following day so to get the maximum duration of 14 hours on any occasion the forecast mean temperature would have to be 18°C or below !

gingerscot

file:///home/chronos/u-1552ea8f25ae4b18b52ecaa31dc0eda060b438d9/Downloads/NEW_ComfortPlus_Control%20(1).pdf

This is the tariff I'm on. Seems to be all day! "Cheap" in this case means 7.2p / Kwhr and normal circuit is 12.4p plus standing charge.

gingerscot

Just to provide a bit more information as I'm now is a situation money wise to actually go ahead with potentially replacing the storage heaters.

I'm on this weird tariff called Scottish Power ComfortPlus control which has two variable rates but both 24/7. See below from this pdf (page 29 if you're interested).

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/82288/state-market-customers-dynamically-teleswitched-meters.pdf

Two variable rates:
 General purposes
 Electricity supplied by the heating meter, made available on three circuits
 Available to new customers
 Only recommended when the electric system provides whole house heating and storage heating forms at least 60% of the total installed heating load.
 The storage space heating is energised between 0 and 14 hours chosen by Scottish Power on the basis of weather conditions
 The storage water heating circuit supplies storage water heating and is energised for periods formally defined at ScottishPower's discretion totalling 4 hours per day, but in practice would normally be 0400 to 0830.
 The direct space and water heating circuit supplies direct acting space and water heating and is energised 24 hours per day

Issue seems to be that if I replace the storage heaters then I'll only get power during the night when ScottishPower allow and not instantly during the day so kind of pointless. They are very ugly, bulky, half block a door and don't provide heat when I need it most (evening really). They are fan heaters in the bathroom/kitchen which are definitely on the heating circuit but are not controlled by SP. Concern/intrigued if a electrician (as don't trust myself) could switch to heaters like the bathroom/kitchen in the living room but that would seem to go again the conditions above stating 60% need to be storage heaters though they are only "recommended". Very confusing wiring in the flat!

Any thoughts?

Richie-from-the-Boro

If you read these two recent threads 1 and 2 you will see that I describe your tariff as 'hangmans tariff', because in my opinion in an electric only heating situation. (1) Night store is the most efficient £ for £ water and space heating and (2) THTC and E10 or other exotic systems will never ever ever be cheap.

I'll only get power during the night

- yes, that's how 99% of the UK's millions of users have warm homes and cheaper heating

very ugly, bulky,

- yes that's how NSCH works, 16 double the size and four times the weight of a housebrick per heater
- having enough pre-stored cheap heat in any room and learning to use them is the economic solution

You will see from the two posts I referred you to that a sparky can switch the CU's around as you wish, however running on panel and fan heating on THTC is pointless and an increase in costs. Running on panel and fan heating on E7 is pointless and an increase in costs. Getting a sparky to rewire for E7, changing the meter and the tariff to E7 making your existing NSCH storage big enough for the task is the solution I'd pick as it would give warmth and comfort and a reduction in costs.

Best of luck.

gingerscot

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

If you read these two recent threads 1 and 2 you will see that I describe your tariff as 'hangmans tariff', because in my opinion in an electric only heating situation. (1) Night store is the most efficient £ for £ water and space heating and (2) THTC and E10 or other exotic systems will never ever ever be cheap.


- yes, that's how 99% of the UK's millions of users have warm homes and cheaper heating

- yes that's how NSCH works, 16 double the size and four times the weight of a housebrick per heater
- having enough pre-stored cheap heat in any room and learning to use them is the economic solution

You will see from the two posts I referred you to that a sparky can switch the CU's around as you wish, however running on panel and fan heating on THTC is pointless and an increase in costs. Running on panel and fan heating on E7 is pointless and an increase in costs. Getting a sparky to rewire for E7, changing the meter and the tariff to E7 making your existing NSCH storage big enough for the task is the solution I'd pick as it would give warmth and comfort and a reduction in costs.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the links and info must appreciated. Fully aware of why storage heaters are cheapest form of electrical heat and why they'll bulky...still irritating though!

Still don't fully understand why it's pointless running on panel and fan heating during the day on THTC instead of storage heaters unless i'm missing the obvious. Currently the fan heating and panels in the bedroom/kitchen are always on the cheap meter and always can provide heat. If we could just have them in the living room then it would be a cheaper and more efficient system surely? Heat when you need it and at cheap rate.

But (and this is where maybe i'm getting it wrong..) I can't replace the storage heaters in the living room with flat panels for 2 reasons...one the storage heaters are linked to the cheap meter but with additional wiring that means it can only receive electricity at certain times (aka night and bit during day when SP lets us, so pointless) and two, i'd break the 60% storage heater agreement?

What am I missing? Other option would be to knock the kitchen wall down and I'd get cheap useful fan heating to the living room! /semi serious

cazum

Am on a thtc meter from sse tried phoning sp for a price on comfort plus was basically told they don't have any such thing and hung up on....

If those 7 pence and 15 pence rates are true I would like to know more since sse are 19p and 9p......

Anyone more info?.

Cardew

cazum wrote: »

If those 7 pence and 15 pence rates are true I would like to know more since sse are 19p and 9p......

Anyone more info?.

You can get 'normal' 24/7 tariffs for around 9p/kWh.

cazum

Never thought of that.....

Could fit 2 timers 1 to control heating and 1 water and get all my electricity at 9p.....

Time to google