Debate House Prices


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Houses in Hertfordshire earning more per year than majority of their occupants

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/14325979.Houses_in_Three_Rivers_earning_almost___100_000_than_families_living_in_them/?ref=mr&lp=16

Or, as the majority on this board would put it, "the free market is functioning perfectly".

Make no mistake, I agree with the trend over the last 40 years towards viewing a lightly regulated free market as the default mechanism for most industries. But there comes a point where even the hardest nosed capitalist has to admit that an unregulated free market is not an end goal in and of itself under any and all circumstances.

In London and Hertfordshire that point has been reached with housing. Talk about Help to Buy, Shared ownership and other laudable attempts to try to keep the market ticking over if you wish, but clearly on figures like these those are simply sticking plasters, intended to delay the inevitable need for a more radical solution to the housing crisis.

Perhaps the most terrifying thing of all, for those fortunate enough to still be able to clamber onto the housing ladder is that interest rates are at historic lows. So not only do you have a whole generation of people who are being well and truly something and pillaged by the generation of their parents on a scale never before seen in British history, but the majority of exceptions to the rule are potentially in an even more precarious position.
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Comments

  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/14325979.Houses_in_Three_Rivers_earning_almost___100_000_than_families_living_in_them/?ref=mr&lp=16

    Or, as the majority on this board would put it, "the free market is functioning perfectly".

    Make no mistake, I agree with the trend over the last 40 years towards viewing a lightly regulated free market as the default mechanism for most industries. But there comes a point where even the hardest nosed capitalist has to admit that an unregulated free market is not an end goal in and of itself under any and all circumstances.

    The housing market is the most heavily regulated market in the UK.
    The solution will be less regulation and the market should be given a try.
    In London and Hertfordshire that point has been reached with housing. Talk about Help to Buy, Shared ownership and other laudable attempts to try to keep the market ticking over if you wish, but clearly on figures like these those are simply sticking plasters, intended to delay the inevitable need for a more radical solution to the housing crisis.

    these need to be scrapped and the market freed up so it works properly.
    Perhaps the most terrifying thing of all, for those fortunate enough to still be able to clamber onto the housing ladder is that interest rates are at historic lows. So not only do you have a whole generation of people who are being well and truly something and pillaged by the generation of their parents on a scale never before seen in British history, but the majority of exceptions to the rule are potentially in an even more precarious position.

    Clearly your knowledge of British History is a poor as your knowledge of economics and of the UK housing situation
  • HornetSaver
    HornetSaver Posts: 3,732 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    Clearly your knowledge of British History is a poor as your knowledge of economics and of the UK housing situation

    Oh please, enlighten me.

    I can think of examples from almost every generation of times being tougher than today. Of examples from every point in history where deliberate or de-facto discrimination based on race, gender, socio-economic background, religion etc had severe consequences for those on the wrong side of the divide.

    I do not know of a single one where the generation below was being hit as hard by the generation above as is the case today with housing. So please, my learned friend, educate us.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Oh please, enlighten me.

    I can think of examples from almost every generation of times being tougher than today. Of examples from every point in history where deliberate or de-facto discrimination based on race, gender, socio-economic background, religion etc had severe consequences for those on the wrong side of the divide.

    I do not know of a single one where the generation below was being hit as hard by the generation above as is the case today with housing. So please, my learned friend, educate us.

    the Y gen have been either the most privileged or at least the second most privileged generation in history : never have the young had it so good.
    The young of the UK are probably in the top 90% of the world in terms of health, income, opportunity, education etc.

    what exactly are you complaining about?
    well yes, the massive over regulation of the housing market and the massive increase of population due to migration, have to change if the housing issues in the SE are to be addressed.
  • HornetSaver
    HornetSaver Posts: 3,732 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    the Y gen have been either the most privileged or at least the second most privileged generation in history : never have the young had it so good.
    The young of the UK are probably in the top 90% of the world in terms of health, income, opportunity, education etc.

    what exactly are you complaining about?
    well yes, the massive over regulation of the housing market and the massive increase of population due to migration, have to change if the housing issues in the SE are to be addressed.

    Waffle that makes politicians look straight talking by comparison. The one credible sentence in it contained the word "probably".

    You attacked me for my lack of knowledge of history, without any explanation of why I was incorrect. So please, educate me on these historical examples of a generation above trampling on a generation below. Please show me that I'm wrong - that it's common for a generation to pull the drawbridge up from the one below on quite the scale being experienced today. Please convince me that I'm unhappy, maybe even hysterical, for no reason other than I happen to be part of the younger generation of today.

    I don't believe that I am, but if I am, I would like to know about it. Maybe it will help me develop into a better person.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Waffle that makes politicians look straight talking by comparison. The one credible sentence in it contained the word "probably".

    You attacked me for my lack of knowledge of history, without any explanation of why I was incorrect. So please, educate me on these historical examples of a generation above trampling on a generation below. Please show me that I'm wrong - that it's common for a generation to pull the drawbridge up from the one below on quite the scale being experienced today. Please convince me that I'm unhappy, maybe even hysterical, for no reason other than I happen to be part of the younger generation of today.

    I don't believe that I am, but if I am, I would like to know about it. Maybe it will help me develop into a better person.

    no idea what you are referring to.
    I've already explained how, except for the over regulated housing sector and the immigration issue, the young are amazingly well off and even at their young age, are against the richest people in the world.
    What do you disagree with ?
  • Home-owning Gen Y here (ok, on the Gen X boundary), living in South Herts.. I'm looking forward to a few years when I can re-mortgage at a much more favourable LTV having seen my house jump in value by 50% over 4 years.

    Sure, my kids are screwed, but at least I'll be able to pay their way through Uni for them if I can cut my mortgage costs down.

    I do feel vaguely sorry for the poor sods paying £450k for bog standard 3 bed semis though
  • westernpromise
    westernpromise Posts: 4,833 Forumite
    Or, as the majority on this board would put it, "the free market is functioning perfectly".

    Make no mistake, I agree with the trend over the last 40 years towards viewing a lightly regulated free market as the default mechanism for most industries. But there comes a point where even the hardest nosed capitalist has to admit that an unregulated free market is not an end goal in and of itself under any and all circumstances.

    The problem is that we don’t have a free market in property. It’s subject to arbitrary and capricious taxation. You can have a house in one part of the country that is literally identical to another elsewhere, but there will be zero transaction tax on one and a six-figure amount on the other. Two people can buy the same house next to each other for the same price but one will pay more stamp duty than the other. Two people can sell identical houses alongside each other in the same street but one may pay CGT while the other does not. There have even been apparently serious proposals that a 3-bedroom house in Chelsea could be deemed a “mansion” and taxed further still while a 10-bedroom Queen Anne house elsewhere would not.

    The prices we now see for houses are chiefly in consequence of several active state choices: to restrict housebuilding, to not restrict immigration, to lower interest rates to allow the banks to recapitalize themselves, and to penalize homemovers with a transaction tax of up to 500%. Rather than adding more regulation to try to gerrymander the consequences of previous poor decisions it makes more sense simply to unpick these.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 29,133 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I do feel vaguely sorry for the poor sods paying £450k for bog standard 3 bed semis though

    I didn't think you could get a 3 bed semi for less than 600k in the bits of herts people wanted to live in....
    I think....
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Holiday Haggler
    edited 8 March 2016 at 6:24PM
    michaels wrote: »
    I didn't think you could get a 3 bed semi for less than 600k in the bits of herts people wanted to live in....
    We're in a nice little St. Albans village 5 minutes drive from Radlett... it's not like I live in Hemel or Stevenage. £600k will get you a nice 4 bed detached. There's actually quite a drought of houses on the lower-end of the market as they tend to sell quickly.

    The issue around here is lack of areas to develop on. There's greenbelt everywhere; which is super for keeping house prices high, but terrible for people wanting to move from flats to a house.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Home-owning Gen Y here (ok, on the Gen X boundary), living in South Herts.. I'm looking forward to a few years when I can re-mortgage at a much more favourable LTV having seen my house jump in value by 50% over 4 years.

    Sure, my kids are screwed, but at least I'll be able to pay their way through Uni for them if I can cut my mortgage costs down.

    I do feel vaguely sorry for the poor sods paying £450k for bog standard 3 bed semis though
    Are they screwed my first house cost over 5x my salary in 1972 the same house sold in 1999 for less than 4x equivelent salary.
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