stung by parkingeye

bcs2015

Dear forum members,
I have received a PCN from parking eye for overstaying at the Ilford retail park and not paying the charge. I have used this car part in the past and aware of the duration of free parking hence before exiting the car park I had tried to make the payment since the parking meter was not working it kept on returning the coins. There is only one parking meter at the carpark and there is no alternative way of payment. I tried contacting parkingeye on 0330 555 4444 (the number displayed on the board next to the parking meter) but it was for an automated system to pay the penalty charge not for purchasing the ticket. I have the proof of these calls from my mobile bill which I had provided along with the initial appeal, that has been refused and have been provided with a POPLA reference number.

I had entered the car park at 19:22:28 and exited at 21:58:29, as per the camera I over stayed for 36 minutes, actually it does not account for the time spent trying to make the payment then inquiring at the nearby shops on alternative way to purchase the ticket. My question is Parkiingeye should be very well aware of the issue with their parking meter in dispensing the tickets in spite of it they issued a penalty and how can I prove that the meter was not working? the only proof I have is my phone calls to that number at that time. I believe this should be sufficient to contest and lodge an appeal with popla. What are my chances of winning? is it worth lodging the appeal? literally I am furious, I had attempted to pay and it's not my mistake.

Also, on that day I had been to the Ilford town hall for a concert and it was announced at the concert that parking meters are not working so I guess it was a known issue and parkingeye should be aware of it.

Thanks in advance,
San

Redx

currently POPLA is tunning at a 50% success rate (approx) although for forum aided appeals it will be much higher than that

post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread will help you draft a popla appeal, including the legal arguments that will be used in your defence

The_Slithy_Tove

"Frustration of Contract"
Look it up.

The_Deep

... how can I prove that the meter was not working? the only proof I have is my phone


In a court of law you would not have to, it would be up to them to prove that it was. It would therefore be most unlikely that they would take it that far.

Coupon-mad

how can I prove that the meter was not working? the only proof I have is my phone

Why do you think that's going to be a major part of any appeal? It's not going to win at POPLA. Please read the NEWBIES FAQS thread first.

Sounds like you have already gone & said who was driving, in that first appeal (hope NOT)?

I have the proof of these calls from my mobile bill which I had provided along with the initial appeal, that has been refused and have been provided with a POPLA reference number.

Work on a POPLA appeal like loads of others you see here on the first half dozen pages. Learn from other threads. Show us a draft!

Also tell us what happened when you (of course, as you would) complained to the retailer Store Manager(s) and site management?

bcs2015

Thank you for the replies.

Unfortunately I have disclosed who was driving the car in my first appeal how does it affect the POPLA appeal? I have been reading the newbie thread, will prepare the draft appeal shortly and post it for feedback.

Since it was at 10:00 pm, I could not find the site management, and the store manager at Lidl said to look for the contact number on the board and speak to them, the number there was for automated system to pay for PCN

Coupon-mad

It affects the POPLA appeal because you have binned any right to criticise the compliance of the PCN wording, nothing about the POFA 2012 or 'no keeper liability' can be used by a driver, not even if PE had sent the PCN after the 14 day deadline, all binned. Just means you have missed a 'potentially winning' POPLA appeal point out, so you need to win on something else now.

But don't despair, in many cases v PE we've seen, POPLA are not making great decisions for consumers right now anyway and seem unmoved (and relatively clueless in some cases) about the POFA.

'No Landowner authority' is always to be included, as you will find from other appeal examples - see here, it's a large site with 4 freehold interests (this also gives you the landowners, Millbank!):

http://www.investilford.co.uk/pdfs/OS25%20Site%20Information.pdf

There is also a suspicion of no planning consent for their cameras and signs so ask the Council Planning Dept.

...in the POPLA appeal, a general appeal point about 'unclear signs at the P&D machine about how to make payment when the single machine is out of order' might win it if argued well, or a clear argument that there is nothing on any notices to tell a driver how the data captured by ANPR will be used, whch is a breach of the ICO registration and BPA Code of Practice. This misleads a driver who would otherwise reasonably consider that the point of sale is the P&D machine (as supported by case law in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking). A driver would not otherwise be properly informed that the ANPR camera is using the data to start the clock at the entrance which adds undisclosed minutes to the timing, unbeknown to the driver who cannot then make an informed decision about how long the 'stay' is.

You don't have to hide behind 'I am the registered keeper', as you've already said who was driving. You can now tell it like it was although 'the machine wasn't working' as an appeal point on it's own won't win. It's more about the lack of a clear and transparent contract/lack of alternative payment methods or clear instructions/signs about that which meant the driver had no idea the failure of the operator's own system could result in a driver being penalised. A very clear penalty clause, if ever there was one and not a case of PE being able to argue they have any 'legitimate interest' in charging a hundred times more than they failed to enable a driver to pay in the first place.

And in fact you can use what you said below (and your mobile phone evidence, why not) because you are appealing as the driver:

I have used this car part in the past and aware of the duration of free parking hence before exiting the car park I had tried to make the payment since the parking meter was not working it kept on returning the coins. There is only one parking meter at the carpark and there is no alternative way of payment. I tried contacting parkingeye on 0330 555 4444 (the number displayed on the board next to the parking meter) but it was for an automated system to pay the penalty charge not for purchasing the ticket. I have the proof of these calls from my mobile bill which I had provided along with the initial appeal, that has been refused and have been provided with a POPLA reference number.

bcs2015

Oh my bad that I disclosed the driver in my initial appeal, I was confident since the machine was not working they will acknowledge it and waive it, but its only a money making tactic from PE.

Thank you for the clarification, will contact council planning department today as advised and also get some photographs of the instructions at the car park.

Coupon-mad

If you can't get the answer on the phone/quickly enough, include the suspicion of no planning consent in the appeal point about 'no landowner authority' ANYWAY. Anything you say in the appeal, the parking firm has to rebut with evidence and you don't lose brownie points for missing bullets.

You will see from the examples on the forum at the moment (go back several pages clicking on any thread about POPLA appeals being drafted) that we do suggest throwing the kitchen sink at them. BUT you can no longer just write about no loss/GPEOL so do NOT read older POPLA appeals than 2016; you need to distinguish the case from the Beavis case.

You will see how in the recent threads about POPLA on the first half dozen of so pages here on the forum.

bcs2015

Thank you, I received the rejection notice on 23rd Feb, so it will be 28 days from then right?

Spoke to the Redbridge planning department, they have asked to send an email and advised it will be answered in couple of days. Should I be asking for any more information than listed below?
1) Is there a valid planning permission to use the land for car park
2) Has there been a planning consent for erecting ANPR cameras and signs board
3) Details of Retail Park site management contact details

Coupon-mad

4) What terms of parking are within any planning consent, e.g. how long can drivers park free and can they use other shops or just the Lidl/Farmfoods etc. on site? Or is there no such stipulation known to the Council?
5) If no planning permission exists for the adverts (PE signs) and ANPR cameras, what are the Council now going to do about this breach and will they be removed?

And yes you have 28 days so long enough to wait for a reply.