Bought new leasehold house - invoiced for back dated ground rent.

Marktheshark

Running_Horse wrote: »

A leasehold house. What a quaint concept.

Basically a piece of paper that lets you live in someone else's house

Angie_B

beastman wrote: »

Angie B - your point about not paying the rent for 2016 when I am living there for almost all of the year does sound totally relevant but isn't the point more relevant that the annual payment which is meant to be paid in advance and clearly when I was not the owner? Also putting it another way, maybe this is how it is done but it sounds unlikely, say I had bought the house in on 1st March 2015 would the seller (who would have paid that years GR in full by then) request a pro rata payment back for the 10 months of the year that they weren't there?

Yes, I would say that they absolutely would. This is exactly how it worked when I both bought and sold my flat, and the same for all my friends who have purchased leasehold. Your solicitor should get an up to date account statement for the year and the charges are apportioned between the buyer and seller for the amount of time they each live in the property. I cannot think of a reason you believe this to be unfair. Why do you think the sellers should pay for 11.5 months worth of charges covering a period they did not live at the property?

beastman wrote: »

Just to clarify the solicitors did address this issue (sorry did not post this as my initial post was long as it was but also I wanted to clarify if I was still legally obliged to pay an old outstanding bill) but my wife did not query it at the time. The sellers gave us a small payment (£6 or £7) in for their portion of the GR. However this was not explained properly to my wife that we would then be liable for the 2006 GR. I think the solicitors, bearing in mind they were paid a £125 leasehold supplement fee for their work on this leasehold document, have not done a fair job as the main letter they sent to us dated 21st December stated that the ground rent "has been paid up to date". The sellers clearly would have had the invoice for 2016 in their hands at this time for several weeks. Surely they should have made the 2016 GR issue more clear - we weren't even told when the GR was due. Had we known the GR was due on 1.1.16 when buying the house on 15.1.16 I assume we would have expected the owner to have just paid the bill in full.

If they seller's had paid the bill in full, which I agree they could have, you would still have been liable for your 11.5 months worth. So instead of you being given £6-7 to cover the seller's share, you would have needed to give them the £143 to cover yours.

It is really six of one or half a dozen of the other. Either way the result is the same. The seller pays for 2 weeks, you pay for the other 50, as per the ownership split.

beastman

Thanks again for the feedback. Looks like a consensus that this invoice should be paid on a technical and it would seem moral grounds and that I have not been stitched up.

Does anyone think though that as the invoice had no due date I should refuse to pay the invoice until they send a correct one? Assuming they do send an invoice with a due date of 1.1.16 can I not then refuse on legal grounds? ie how can I go back in time and pay for it, particularly when I wasn't the owner. I am legally off the hook so to speak?

davidmcn

beastman wrote: »

Does anyone think though that as the invoice had no due date I should refuse to pay the invoice until they send a correct one? Assuming they do send an invoice with a due date of 1.1.16 can I not then refuse on legal grounds? ie how can I go back in time and pay for it, particularly when I wasn't the owner. I am legally off the hook so to speak?

You can quibble with them about the wording of the invoice if you want, but like I said all you'd be doing is delaying the inevitable issue of a valid invoice which you'd need to pay. What's the point?

SmlSave

beastman wrote: »

Thanks again for the feedback. Looks like a consensus that this invoice should be paid on a technical and it would seem moral grounds and that I have not been stitched up.

Does anyone think though that as the invoice had no due date I should refuse to pay the invoice until they send a correct one? Assuming they do send an invoice with a due date of 1.1.16 can I not then refuse on legal grounds? ie how can I go back in time and pay for it, particularly when I wasn't the owner. I am legally off the hook so to speak?

Add the now owner you are liable for up to six years back ground/service rent.

Stop trying to get out of it and pay

Try not to get on the wrong side of the freeholder - they can make your life more difficult than you can make yours!

beastman

SmlSave wrote: »

Add the now owner you are liable for up to six years back ground/service rent.

Stop trying to get out of it and pay

Try not to get on the wrong side of the freeholder - they can make your life more difficult than you can make yours!

? How if the payments are up to date?

Nobbie1967

Just pay the bill, or you'll end up getting charged late payment fees and solicitors fees which will be a massive PITA to sort out. Maybe the vendor didn't pay the initial invoice because it wasn't legally correct and was under no obligation to pay?

Kynthia

The ground rent was paid up to date as all of 2015 was paid and the vendors had given you their share of 2016. Yes if you were buying mid-way through the year it's entirely plausible you would have been expected to reimburse them for the part of the year you would owe. When buying and selling it doesn't really matter whether ground rent us paid in advance or arrears, what matters is the period of time it is covering.

The solicitors charge a leasehold supplement as there is more work with a leasehold purchase. They have to deal with the freeholder or their solicitor, check through the lease, check tga service charge and ground rent are paid and deal with any retentions, and process the registration of you as the owner with the freeholder. The freeholder also charges you for this notice of transfer. None of this is stitching you up as it is costs for work that needs doing, and none of it gets you out of the cost of ground rent for the period of time you own the property.

If you didn't query things you didn't understand then it's not your solicitors fault. There's a lot with buying property that people don't know at first and although your solicitor is looking out for your interests it is not their job to train you up on everything and hold your hand. You are expected to gain a certain amount of knowledge yourself and ask questions if you aren't sure of something. However most ftb don't realise this and generally make mistakes or learn by experience.

AlexMac

19 posts over a six quid bill...? (oops- make that 20!)

SmlSave

beastman wrote: »

? How if the payments are up to date?

If they are not. Do you really want to give the freeholder reason to look through their records just in case 20p wasn't paid in 2011?

Pay the bill