Sellers solicitor is being obstructive

pittbakes

Just wanting some advice. We are currently buying our first property, a leasehold flat in London (160 years left on lease). We had our offer accepted at the end of November and are currently trying to move towards exchange (and we have to be out of our current rental property by April 25 - there is no way round this - so we are a bit pushed for time). We will also have a newborn baby when we move so we are anxious to exchange and complete as soon as possible really.

There are two main issues which seem to be holding up exchange.

1) The vendors installed new windows in the flat. Our solicitor says this counts as an alteration rather than a repair and therefore permission should have been sought from the freeholder. Their solicitor argues that this is an alteration and therefore no permission is needed. However, they are refusing to allow our solicitor to get in touch with the freeholder directly to clarify the situation. Therefore our solicitor has asked them to pay for indemnity insurance or to provide retrospective permission. They seem reluctant to do either.

2) There is a defect in the lease which our solicitor says needs a deed of variation to rectify. The sellers solicitor disagrees with this and so does the freeholder. Our solicitor is insistent it needs to be done and that it is their responsibility to pay for it.

We're chain free but our vendors have a property they're buying (that's the only other property in the chain though, there is no onward chain). Their solicitor is the father of the husband so I do not really understand why the defective lease was not picked up on when they purchased the property in 2011.

This is really stressing me out which I don't need when I'm nearly nine months pregnant! Any advice appreciated.

G_M

Your solicitor is protecting your interests (as well as any mortgage lender you may be using). He is doing the right thing.

Did you find the property via an estate agent? If so, go in and explain the problem. Make it clear you will NOT be proceeding unless the issues are resolved by the seller, and ask the agent to
1) pass that information on to his client (the seller)
2) show you any similar properties he has for sale - that will focus his mind as he won't want to lose his commission on the sale!

Also tell him you are viewing another property tomorrow with another agent as this purchase seems to be not going anywhere.

Nobbie1967

pittbakes wrote: »

Just wanting some advice. We are currently buying our first property, a leasehold flat in London (160 years left on lease). We had our offer accepted at the end of November and are currently trying to move towards exchange (and we have to be out of our current rental property by April 25 - there is no way round this - so we are a bit pushed for time). We will also have a newborn baby when we move so we are anxious to exchange and complete as soon as possible really.

There are two main issues which seem to be holding up exchange.

1) The vendors installed new windows in the flat. Our solicitor says this counts as an alteration rather than a repair and therefore permission should have been sought from the freeholder. Their solicitor argues that this is an alteration and therefore no permission is needed. However, they are refusing to allow our solicitor to get in touch with the freeholder directly to clarify the situation. Therefore our solicitor has asked them to pay for indemnity insurance or to provide retrospective permission. They seem reluctant to do either.

2) There is a defect in the lease which our solicitor says needs a deed of variation to rectify. The sellers solicitor disagrees with this and so does the freeholder. Our solicitor is insistent it needs to be done and that it is their responsibility to pay for it.

We're chain free but our vendors have a property they're buying (that's the only other property in the chain though, there is no onward chain). Their solicitor is the father of the husband so I do not really understand why the defective lease was not picked up on when they purchased the property in 2011.

This is really stressing me out which I don't need when I'm nearly nine months pregnant! Any advice appreciated.

I'm wondering what relationship exists between the freeholder and the vendor? Sounds rather strange. You could end up being held to ransome by the freeholder for unauthorised alterations and a defective lease. Sounds like your solicitor is doing their job well. I think you need to make clear to the estate agent that the purchase can't proceed without these issues being addressed and hopefully they will put pressure on the vendor.

AdrianC

pittbakes wrote: »

(and we have to be out of our current rental property by April 25 - there is no way round this

Not quite.

I presume Apr25 is when your tenancy expires. That doesn't mean that, at 1 minute past midnight on 26th, you're going to be thrown out onto the street with your belongings lying in the wet gutter.

It means that the landlord cannot do anything to start eviction proceedings until 26th. Those proceedings can take several months. Only when a court grants him possession can he actually physically evict you.

This is really stressing me out which I don't need when I'm nearly nine months pregnant! Any advice appreciated.

TBF, it's not as if that's come without some warning, is it...?

But looking at the actual beefs...

1) The vendors installed new windows in the flat. Our solicitor says this counts as an alteration rather than a repair and therefore permission should have been sought from the freeholder. Their solicitor argues that this is (not) an alteration and therefore no permission is needed. However, they are refusing to allow our solicitor to get in touch with the freeholder directly to clarify the situation. Therefore our solicitor has asked them to pay for indemnity insurance or to provide retrospective permission. They seem reluctant to do either.

Why does your solicitor need permission to contact the freeholder? The freeholder might choose not to reply, of course.

So you have a choice, since they're reluctant to do anything. You can either not bother with the indemnity or permission, or you can apply for permission yourself, or you can buy an indemnity yourself. If you contact the freeholder -with or without their approval - the indemnity option goes off the table, no matter who pays. How much is the indemnity policy?

Or you can walk away.

2) There is a defect in the lease which our solicitor says needs a deed of variation to rectify. The sellers solicitor disagrees with this and so does the freeholder. Our solicitor is insistent it needs to be done and that it is their responsibility to pay for it.

Similar situation to previously. If they don't want to pay, either you can pay or you can accept that the deed isn't required. How much to get the deed?

Or you can walk away.

We're chain free but our vendors have a property they're buying (that's the only other property in the chain though, there is no onward chain). Their solicitor is the father of the husband so I do not really understand why the defective lease was not picked up on when they purchased the property in 2011.

Perhaps your solicitor is the one that's out-of-line, and there really isn't a problem?

Hoploz

New replacement windows would be an alteration needing permission from freeholder.
Repairing the existing windows, eg panes of glass, work on rotten timber, would be repair and therefore wouldn't need permission.

That's how I would see it.

If your solicitor wants to change the lease and theirs doesn't then you could offer to pay. What is the problem? It hasn't been picked up previously.

Actually you ave plenty of time for ths to get sorted, and I'm sure if you do as suggested and speak to the EA as middleman, it would get sorted pretty quickly. Solicitors are good as raising queries, but often it's quickest for the EA to have the two-way conversation with the vendor to iron things out quicker than waiting weeks for solicitors vague and often rude-sounding letters.

ReadingTim

The seller's solicitor is being no more obstructive than your solicitor - they're both looking after their respective clients' interests, which aren't the same. Essentially, you're both arguing about who picks up the tab, as neither party wants to!

But solicitors are advisors, and can only advise. YOU make the decision, and it seems you may have up to the following 4 choices*:

1. proceed with the purchase and pay to resolve the window and lease problems yourself
2. proceed with the purchase by instructing your solicitor that you're willing to take the risk re. the issues identified with the windows and lease then ignore the problem or deal with it should it actually arise.
3. threaten to pull out of the purchase unless the price is reduced by the amount it will take to resolve the aforementioned issues
4. pull out (or threaten to pull out) unless the seller resolves the issues at their own expense prior to purchase.

* your mortgage provider (if you have one) may limit these choices further. If so, delete as appropriate, and pick the option of choice. Your call...

Hoploz

... Except that sometimes these things are not up to the buyer, sometimes the lender won't proceed until these bits of paperwork are resolved.

ReadingTim

Hoploz wrote: »

... Except that sometimes these things are not up to the buyer, sometimes the lender won't proceed until these bits of paperwork are resolved.

In which case option 4 is forced upon you.

G_M

ReadingTim wrote: »

....you have 4 choices:

1. proceed with the purchase and pay to resolve the window and lease problems yourself
2. proceed with the purchase by instructing your solicitor that you're willing to take the risk re. the issues identified with the windows and lease then ignore the problem or deal with it should it actually arise.
3. threaten to pull out of the purchase unless the price is reduced by the amount it will take to resolve the aforementioned issues
4. pull out (or threaten to pull out) unless the seller resolves the issues at their own expense prior to purchase.Your call...

Option 2 assumes OP is not getting a mortgage. The lender (on the solicitor's advice) may refuse to allow this option.

ReadingTim

G_M wrote: »

[/LIST]
Option 2 assumes OP is not getting a mortgage. The lender (on the solicitor's advice) may refuse to allow this option.

Caveat added: 3rd parties may further restrict the choices available to the buyer.

pittbakes

I don't think our solicitor is the one causing the issue as I have sought independent advice from two other conveyancing solicitors and they agree with her analysis.

We are happy paying for indemnity insurance, that's not the issue, the issue is the sellers solicitor keeps repeating that it isn't needed. We're not happy paying for a deed of variation as it's likely to cost thousands.

Ignoring the issues not an option as our lender won't lend without these changes.

I spoke to the EA yesterday and he's going to talk to both parties. I have no idea if there's a relationship between their solicitor and the freeholder but their solicitor has banned ours from contacting the freeholder directly which seems a bit odd.

I am stressed because it should have been very straightforward. If we have to pull out we will as I cannot risk having nowhere to live on 25 April with a newborn baby. We did try to go on a rolling contract but our landlord refused.


Saying "it hasn't been picked up previously therefore there's no issue" is not good enough. It wasn't picked up previously as prior solicitors were not vigilant enough. If it doesn't get rectified now we may well encounter the same issue when we sell the place.